Since 9/11 Americans have killed around 300,000 Americans

[Gipper]

I disagree. It is a parallel between our attitude toward those we consider our ennemies, and those we consider our friends. We believe our friends can do no wrong. . .just as we can do no wrong.

We feel free to impose our law and our needs on our "ennemies," and we support (or we turn a blind eye) to our "friends" doing the same with their "ennemies."

My Sweet, could you please give me a current real time example of this 'attitude' you describe? Something that is occurring today, if at all possible.

 

[dogtowner]

My Sweet, could you please give me a current real time example of this 'attitude' you describe? Something that is occurring today, if at all possible.

if so please do it in a new thread since as BigRob has pointed out, its a major tangent from the point of this thread. thx

 

[BigRob]

I disagree. It is a parallel between our attitude toward those we consider our ennemies, and those we consider our friends. We believe our friends can do no wrong. . .just as we can do no wrong.

We feel free to impose our law and our needs on our "ennemies," and we support (or we turn a blind eye) to our "friends" doing the same with their "ennemies."

I am happy to have that discussion, but this thread seems to be about comparing murder ratios between AQ and Americans to determine who is more violent.

 

[Openmind]

I am happy to have that discussion, but this thread seems to be about comparing murder ratios between AQ and Americains to determine who is more violent.

I was under the impression that it was about comparing the 9/11 attack by AQ and the death they have caused in that terrible event and the heavy hand used in retaliatin through the invasion of Iraq and the number of death (both among American soldiers and the Iraquis, civilians and combattants).

We actually provoque more of OUR OWN SOLDIERS death in that unwarranted war than AQ caused on 9/11.

Yet, we continue to look at AQ and Muslims in general as "cruel and deadly," but we don't consider our part in that cruelty and deadly.

And we do the same with the Israel/Palestinian issue. . .

 

[BigRob]

I was under the impression that it was about comparing the 9/11 attack by AQ and the death they have caused in that terrible event and the heavy hand used in retaliatin through the invasion of Iraq and the number of death (both among American soldiers and the Iraquis, civilians and combattants).

We actually provoque more of OUR OWN SOLDIERS death in that unwarranted war than AQ caused on 9/11.

Yet, we continue to look at AQ and Muslims in general as "cruel and deadly," but we don't consider our part in that cruelty and deadly.

And we do the same with the Israel/Palestinian issue. . .

Dawkins said:

Americans have only killed 200,000 Americans during the period in question

(the average annual murder rate during the period is 17'000)

Therefore -- it does not seem to be an issue of coaliteral damage in war -- but rather a comparison between AQ death counts and American murder rates.

 

[Openmind]

Dawkins said:

Americans have only killed 200,000 Americans during the period in question

(the average annual murder rate during the period is 17'000)

Therefore -- it does not seem to be an issue of coaliteral damage in war -- but rather a comparison between AQ death counts and American murder rates.

I took Dawkins remarks as referring to the death that followed 9/11 that would have been related to our "revenge" for 9/11.
If I was wrong, I apologize.

But my point still stand.
By the way. . .after so many months here, you may want to explain to me how I post a new thread. I haven't done it yet, because I haven't found where to do it. Even wondered if only "elites" in this forum were allowed to post new threads.

So. . .I do annoy you. . .don't I. Well, I guess you may have to live with that for awhile.
Unless you decide to join force with your new moderator to eliminate me from this forum?

 

[dogtowner]

I took Dawkins remarks as referring to the death that followed 9/11 that would have been related to our "revenge" for 9/11.
If I was wrong, I apologize.

But my point still stand.
By the way. . .after so many months here, you may want to explain to me how I post a new thread. I haven't done it yet, because I haven't found where to do it. Even wondered if only "elites" in this forum were allowed to post new threads.

So. . .I do annoy you. . .don't I. Well, I guess you may have to live with that for awhile.
Unless you decide to join force with your new moderator to eliminate me from this forum?

select the forum you wish to post a thread to then scroll to the bottom (I wish this step was not needed, it was not in the old software hint hint Walter) and you will see a button "Post a new thread". Hit that and have at it. If you unsure how to see the various forums just click on the House of Politics graphic at the top of every screen, for no reason I click the red square with the guy at a podium but anywhere uo there works.

as Rob pointed out, your post had nothing to do with Daw's thread and staying on topic is a rule. I have no interest in eliminating you from any forum here, I've been asked to help enforce the rules so I am.

 

[Openmind]

select the forum you wish to post a thread to then scroll to the bottom (I wish this step was not needed, it was not in the old software hint hint Walter) and you will see a button "Post a new thread". Hit that and have at it. If you unsure how to see the various forums just click on the House of Politics graphic at the top of every screen, for no reason I click the red square with the guy at a podium but anywhere uo there works.

as Rob pointed out, your post had nothing to do with Daw's thread and staying on topic is a rule. I have no interest in eliminating you from any forum here, I've been asked to help enforce the rules so I am.

Yes, dear. I know you would miss me terribly! Who else could you use as a punching bag and still have an intelligent conversation with?
Thanks for the info about new thread.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

I don't debate points that start out with statements like, lets Assume al-Qaeda was behind Sept 11...or alusions to the group not existing...its s sure sign that nothing worthwhile will be taken from it...

also I will just let Big Rob Handle it, he already is saying what I would say to a point. Its not the same.

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

You guys aren't very clever are you?

For one, your triumphalist nonsense about the numbers AQ allegedly killed implies that every murder by Americans on Americans was a single murder

Which is obviously wrong

But aside from that your inability to accept the certain truth that you are massively more at risk from your fellow citizens than from terrorists shows how good the brainwashing is and how stupid Americans are

I know why you won't admit this truth.

It is because you might then have to question your country's murderous antics in the middle East.

 

[BigRob]

You guys aren't very clever are you?

For one, your triumphalist nonsense about the numbers AQ allegedly killed implies that every murder by Americans on Americans was a single murder

Which is obviously wrong

Dawkins...if the total murder count in the United States is 17,000 (your number -- which is wrong by the way) then that is the total count. It is not as if someone kills two people and it only gets counted as one death.

Nothing about the figures is changed by your comments on the subject. Your assertion is incorrect, has been shown to be incorrect, and it is time to admit it.

But aside from that your inability to accept the certain truth that you are massively more at risk from your fellow citizens than from terrorists shows how good the brainwashing is and how stupid Americans are

I know why you won't admit this truth.

We won't "admit the truth" because statistically it is not so. Your claim compares apples to oranges and
does so intentionally. You have no interest in the actual statistical comparison.

It is like me being outraged that China consumes more food than Nepal. Therefore, China needs to consume less food -- but it ignores (one must assume intentionally on your part) that there are a billion people in China and nowhere near that many in Nepal. To do a true comparison you have to break it down at an individual level -- which clearly shows your argument for the straw man that it is.

It is because you might then have to question your country's murderous antics in the middle East.

You can make such an argument, but your "evidence" has yet to be presented -- outside of ignoring statistical data to screech about a already disproven claim.

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

You make no sense

Americans have murdered hundreds of thousands of Americans over the years

Some in individual murders some in mass murders

You are much more likely to be killed by an American than a Muslim terrorist

This is a mathematical certainty

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

Of course I don't expect mathematical certainty to get in the way of your beliefs

If the US government tells you you at greater risk from terrorists then the mathematics can go hang

After all, you all suspend logic routinely

 

[dogtowner]

You make no sense

Americans have murdered hundreds of thousands of Americans over the years

Some in individual murders some in mass murders

You are much more likely to be killed by an American than a Muslim terrorist

This is a mathematical certainty

moving the goalposts does not enhance your argument.

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

Are you alright?

My point has always been that you are far more at risk from being murdered by an American which makes it much worse as a threat than Islamic terrorism

Having watched some frankly bizarre attempts to contradict this obvious fact I felt it about time that I pointed out that it is a mathematical certainty.

And yet the numbskulls in the US still buy the lies

Could I request that dogtowner gets demoted on account of his failure to understand basic reasoning please?

 

[dogtowner]

Are you alright?

My point has always been that you are far more at risk from being murdered by an American which makes it much worse as a threat than Islamic terrorism

Having watched some frankly bizarre attempts to contradict this obvious fact I felt it about time that I pointed out that it is a mathematical certainty.

And yet the numbskulls in the US still buy the lies

Could I request that dogtowner gets demoted on account of his failure to understand basic reasoning please?

moving the goalposts does not enhance your argument.