The Speech

[Dr.Who]

He's been welcomed as a close friend and religious advisor in a number of White Houses - particularly the current one.

If that is the case I will have no dificulty in admitting it. But so far in doind a search I can find numerous references to his being at various political functions and in the white house but none to his being a mentor or advisor.

If everyone who stepped through the white house doors was a mentor then that office would be much more messed up than it is. I mean, Hillary Clinton channeled Eleanor Roosevelt through a medium. Or more likely she just played along to be nicey nicey kissy face with people who might give money.

 

[Pandora]

So far I like what I see and I like the way he has handled the issue of race by neither ignoring it nor playing it up. It's there, it's a fact and he does not agree with Wright's views on the unchanging nature of it.[/QUOTE]


then you should for sure vote for him. I dont think anyone says you shouldnt vote for who you think is the best.

I cant buy the line, well he brought me to christianity so that is all i meant by my spiritual guide. but if you can buy it, you should.

 

[Libsmasher]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Libsmasher
Not at all - to claim that is to refute a fundamental precept of Christianity - that sin resides in one's >>>BEHAVIOR<<<.

Dingo kidneys, Lipsmasher, the Bible has nothing to say about homosexual people in loving relationships--it condemns fornication though, gay or straight.

False - it unequivocally condemns homosexuality, eg

Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination

If Bible-beaters (people who use the Bible as a weapon) would do their research they'd know that homosexuality (a word not even coined until the end of the 19th century) was not a cultural concept in Bible times and for the first 1200 years (approx.) the church had nothing to say about homosexual people. Jesus never had a word to say about it, the apostle Paul made up a word and people have ASSUMED that he meant homosexuals, but there's not proof of that.

The prohibitions are in the Old Testament.

King David had a gay lover, Jonathon and God didn't have a problem with that.

Proof? Citations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Libsmasher
That's false, and you have no proof.

Oh, please, Jerry was a loudmouth bigot who left so many ugly quotes that there is even a website listing them: http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/foulwell.htm

No text dumps please - give an exact quote from a reliable source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Libsmasher
Falwell's claims about homosexuality are just religious dogma. Wright's assertions are that the federal government created AIDS to kill black people has nothing to do with religion - it's just lunacy. To try to equate Wright's ravings to Falwell's religious conceptions is silly.

You usually aren't this dense, Libs, to say that someone making a claim against the US government for bad behavior is a greater lunacy that condemning people in the name of the Creator of the Universe? Hello? We know the US government has done some incredibly cruel and stupid things to it's own people. Check out the US Public Health Service study that was done on the effects of syphillis, in which illiterate black people were recruited by doctors (!) and under the guise of a new treatment regimen they were allowed to die without treatement while the doctors simpy recorded what happened to them. It cost the American people millions in reparation when the study was finally exposed. How about the American soldiers who were marched through ground zero right after atomic bomb tests? You know, the soldiers who were lied to about the effects of radiation, the same soldiers who almost to a man died of cancer from the radiation.

Stick to the issue - Wright said the US government created AIDS to kill the black community - do you have proof? Does wright?

Personally, Wright and Falwell look like twins to me, idiot twins.

This is the "protect Obama" mantra - like, everyone's spiritual advisor is a racist america-hating paranoid lunatic - won't wash.

 

[Dr.Who]

False - it unequivocally condemns homosexuality, eg

Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination

There are lots of things in the OT that we don't follow as law today. What did you do last Saturday? Did it include anything that one might call work?

What about that part in the verse you quoted where it is called an obomination? Do you think that there are any things in the OT that were called an obomination that are not called that now? Here is a passage that uses the word abomination a number of times:

These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.

"10And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:

11They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.

12Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

13And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray, "

I like shrimp (calamari too), how about you?

Even the people who think (in error) that we need to keep the 10 commandments will usually say that we don't need to keep the ceromonial laws. You know which book focuses on the ceromonial laws? Leviticus - the same book that the above verses came from as well as the one you quoted from.

So why did a book that focuses on ceromonial laws talk about men lying with men? I don't think any of us knows the details but I have heard it said that a near-by culture had a practice idolotrously using male temple prostitutes and that this is what was being avoided. I think there are problems with swallowing this whole reasoning but I know that there is no problem with swallowing shrimp, or in setting aside as fulfilled any other cerominial or Mosaic laws for those who are in Christ.

This rule may be vaguely understood but the rest of the bible that forgives all sin for the faithful is not vaguely understood at all. Righteousness does not come from following the law. It never did and never will. The purpose of the law was not to make us good, it was to show us that we are bad. Once the baby is weaned then there is no more need of a nursemaid. It is time to move on to solid food: let the spirit of God live in you and guide you as the only means of attaining righteousness.

 

[Coyote]

False - it unequivocally condemns homosexuality, eg

Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination

Ya, but it also said eating shellfish was an "abomination".

 

[Pandora]

The man says you should vote for him because he has the judgement to lead. Look at the judgment he has shown so far. Then he does a speech on race, when the real issue is the anti american comments his pastor made. Now a new pastor is coming out that says thigs like the mayor is just a slave master and black people who support him are house N*&&^%$. i wont even type what he said, its a foul word. this man did tv adds for him when he was running for state senate. Obama said he was also a spiritual advisor. He said it of course before this came out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6Kz-_IaFyU

why does obama keep friends who are so anti white? his pastor had horrible things to say about white people, this new meeks has horrible things to say about white people
obama said his grandma is a typical white person (racist, and scared of black people on the streets)

but we are to believe Obama himself doesnt hold these feelings.


but I have the judgment not to vote for him

he hasn't the judgement to......

 

[Dr.Who]

The man says you should vote for him because he has the judgement to lead. Look at the judgment he has shown so far. Then he does a speech on race, when the real issue is the anti american comments his pastor made. Now a new pastor is coming out that says thigs like the mayor is just a slave master and black people who support him are house N*&&^%$. i wont even type what he said, its a foul word. this man did tv adds for him when he was running for state senate. Obama said he was also a spiritual advisor. He said it of course before this came out

"Barack Obama's own account of his life shows that he consciously sought out people on the far left fringe. In college, "I chose my friends carefully," he said in his first book, "Dreams From My Father."

These friends included "Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk rock performance poets" -- in Obama's own words -- as well as the "more politically active black students." He later visited a former member of the terrorist Weatherman underground, who endorsed him when he ran for state senator.

Obama didn't just happen to encounter Jeremiah Wright, who just happened to say some way out things. Jeremiah Wright is in the same mold as the kinds of people Barack Obama began seeking out in college -- members of the left, anti-American counter-culture."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/post_25.html

 

[Libsmasher]

There are lots of things in the OT that we don't follow as law today. What did you do last Saturday? Did it include anything that one might call work?

What about that part in the verse you quoted where it is called an obomination? - blah, blah, blah......

Uh, you're getting confused sport. I am an agnostic. My post was simply in response to mare tranquilty's erroneous assertion that the bible didn't prohibit homosexuality.

 

[Libsmasher]

Ya, but it also said eating shellfish was an "abomination".

So what?

 

[Pandora]

"Barack Obama's own account of his life shows that he consciously sought out people on the far left fringe. In college, "I chose my friends carefully," he said in his first book, "Dreams From My Father."

These friends included "Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk rock performance poets" -- in Obama's own words -- as well as the "more politically active black students." He later visited a former member of the terrorist Weatherman underground, who endorsed him when he ran for state senator.

Obama didn't just happen to encounter Jeremiah Wright, who just happened to say some way out things. Jeremiah Wright is in the same mold as the kinds of people Barack Obama began seeking out in college -- members of the left, anti-American counter-culture."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/post_25.html

I agree with you. I bet you are right.

 

[Dr.Who]

So what?

Lying with men (whatever was meant) Working on the sabath, and eating shellfish were punishable by death then.

Now, working on the sabbath, and eating shellfish are not punishable at all so why should lying with men (whatever that meant) be punishable?

Adding to that Paul said "all things are permissible"

Many (if not all) of the books of the new testament directly state that the old laws are not binding today - they are fulfilled. Why would I (or someone else) a gentile care about a Jewish Law that is thousands of years old and isn't even binding anymore.

 

[Pandora]

Many (if not all) of the books of the new testament directly state that the old laws are not binding today - they are fulfilled. Why would I (or someone else) a gentile care about a Jewish Law that is thousands of years old and isn't even binding anymore.[/QUOTE]

I am not sure how Jesus fullfilled the commandments or the laws. I guess you can say he did the first 4. He did love the Creator more than probably anyone. But the others. like how did he fullfill do not murder, do not covet or do not commit adultry?

Here is a new test vs that was spoken by Jesus, I would think anything he said trumps paul

mat 5:18
"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.


Last I looked its a very sunny day but I could be missing something.
all is not accomplished, he still has to return, win a really big war, Bring in the new heavens, new earth and new jerusalem, then reign on it with his elect for 1000 years and a few more things.


I think bible believers eating unclean foods, not honoring the sabbath is just that the group watered its self down broke in sects. Kind of like our country used to be strong capitolist but now liberalism and socialism are watering it down.

Wasn't the topic about Obama's speech? ugh I am off topic again.

Obama gave a bad speech!!!!!!!!

 

[asur]

Obama criticized those typical white peoples today.

He said whites go hunting, look to religion and show dislike for illegal immigrants
because they are frustrated.

That's funny coming from this man who sat clapping while Paster Wright
was cussing out America, whites, jews, Italians and others. Both he and his
wife didn't mind this hate speech, in fact they revelled in it.


Obama despise poors White Americans it appears.

Well these poor white folk helped pay the taxes that provided him a free house,
free college education and opportunities white children will never get.

Maybe they really are just dumb white folks, if they even think about voting for this Racist named Obama.

 

[Libsmasher]

Lying with men (whatever was meant) Working on the sabath, and eating shellfish were punishable by death then.

Now, working on the sabbath, and eating shellfish are not punishable at all so why should lying with men (whatever that meant) be punishable?

Adding to that Paul said "all things are permissible"

Many (if not all) of the books of the new testament directly state that the old laws are not binding today - they are fulfilled. Why would I (or someone else) a gentile care about a Jewish Law that is thousands of years old and isn't even binding anymore.

You're confused. Back "then", there was a theocracy and now we have a democracy. You are surely misrepresenting Paul. And why indeed would you care about this or that religion. Y'all have wandered wayyyyyyyy off the point, which is that Falwell followed his religion as he saw it. You are free to disagree or agree with that religion - all this back and forth started when I pointed out that Falwell is just following his religion.

 

[Dr.Who]

You're confused. Back "then", there was a theocracy and now we have a democracy. You are surely misrepresenting Paul. And why indeed would you care about this or that religion. Y'all have wandered wayyyyyyyy off the point, which is that Falwell followed his religion as he saw it. You are free to disagree or agree with that religion - all this back and forth started when I pointed out that Falwell is just following his religion.

I see what I believe as completely consistent with the fact of theocracy back then and democracy now.

You are right that JF was following his religion as he sees it. I think he saw it wrongly.