Veterans Never Forget...

Sort of.

If you're talking about Kerry's service in Vietnam, the fact is that a minority of the Swift Boat Veterans for "truth" even saw Kerry in Vietnam, much less served with him.

And just a fraction of them were present ("THERE") at any of the incidents where he received a medal. The vast majority of those present at those incidents have no problem with Kerry receiving those medals . . . . . the Navy had no probelm either.

Those who did have a problem, had it 35 years later.

Doug Reese

PS. I was THERE

You misunderstand.

I have no problem with medals. Never said a word about them.

My problem is after he came home he sh*t all over our troops in the field. He lied and lied and lied. He did this for the sole purpose of gaining notoriety, a career in politics, and lots of power and money. This is what upset the Swift Boat Vets. Most of whom had no problem with Kerry's medals.

If you were there as you claim, then you know he lied about the actions of our troops.
 
Werbung:
You misunderstand.

I have no problem with medals. Never said a word about them.

My problem is after he came home he sh*t all over our troops in the field. He lied and lied and lied. He did this for the sole purpose of gaining notoriety, a career in politics, and lots of power and money. This is what upset the Swift Boat Vets. Most of whom had no problem with Kerry's medals.

If you were there as you claim, then you know he lied about the actions of our troops.
Hence my use of the word "if" at the beginning of my post -- to be sure there was no misunderstanding.

If you think that "most" of the Swift Boat Veterans for "truth" had no problems with his medals, then you didn't follow them very closely.

Doug Reese
 
Three months?




December 1, 1968 Kerry reported for duty at Coastal Squadron One of Coastal Division 14 at the Cam Ranh Bay in South Vietnam (a port base considered the safest assignment in Vietnam), taking command of Swift boat No. 44, operating in the Mekong Delta.
December 2, 1968 Kerry experienced first intense combat, and is slightly wounded by shrapnel in the arm. He was awarded a Purple Heart.
There is, however, no after-action report released by the Kerry campaign. The attending physician, Louis Letson says “The story he told was different from what his crewmen had to say about that night. According to Kerry, they had been engaged in a firefight. . . Some of his crew confided that they did not receive any fire from shore, but that Kerry had fired a mortar round at close range to some rocks on shore. The crewman thought that the injury was caused by a fragment ricocheting from that mortar round when it struck the rocks. That seemed to fit the injury which I treated. What I saw was a small piece of metal sticking very superficially in the skin of Kerry's arm. The metal fragment measured about 1 cm. in length and was about 2 or 3 mm in diameter. . .I simply removed the piece of metal by lifting it out of the skin with forceps. I doubt that it penetrated more than 3 or 4 mm. It did not require probing to find it, did not require any anesthesia to remove it, and did not require any sutures to close the wound. The wound was covered with a band-aid.”

Kerry applied for a Purple Heart. His request was initially denied by his superior Grant Hibbard, as Purple Heart eligibility requirements that “the wound for which the award is made must have required treatment by a medical officer” and Purple Hearts are not to be awarded for “accidents. . .not related to or caused by enemy action” or for “self-inflicted wounds. . .involving gross negligence.” Hibbard later acquiesced.

There is a good summary of the Kerry's medals controversy in the report: "Forging a Paper Hero: The Mystery of Kerry's Medals."

(Note: In Kerry's own journal written 9 days later, he writes that he and his crew, "hadn't been shot at yet." Kerry's 2004 campaign said it is possible his first Purple Heart was awarded for unintentionally self-inflicted wounds.)

December 6, 1968 Kerry was transferred to a more dangerous unit, Coastal Division 11 at An Thoi on Phu Quoc Island, an isolated base on an island near an enemy position. Kerry was opposed to this reassignment.
December 13, 1968 Kerry was transferred on December 13 to Coastal Division 13 in Cat Lo, which had wider, less dangerous rivers. There he joined a unit which provided support to Zumwalt’s Operation SEALORDS.
December 24, 1968 Kerry claimed that he was involved in combat in waters off Cambodia during Christmas Eve of 1968. Kerry said he ordered his crew to open fire, silencing the machine gun barrage aimed at them.
"I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the president of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia. I have that memory which is seared -- seared -- in me."

(Note: Kerry has since altered his claim to say he was in Cambodia in early 1969. This claim in unsubstantiated. The story changes by the day and unfolding.)

December 1968 Within a few weeks Kerry was reassigned back to An Thoi.
Crewman Steve Gardner states that he filed a false after-action report to cover up a January incident involving the accidental shooting of a child.

(Kerry’s fellow officer George Bates similarly states that Kerry habitually overreacted to threatening situations by using excessive force, including on one occasion burning down a random village where there was no sign of enemy presence.)

January 22, 1969 Kerry and other Swift boat commanders travel to Saigon for meeting with Adm. Elmo Zumwalt, Commander Naval Forces Vietnam (COMNAVFORV), and Gen. Creighton Abrams, Commander United States Military Assistance Command Vietnam (COMUSMACV)
On June 6, 1971, John Kerry described the work of the Swift boats to the Washington Star as follows:

"We established an American presence in most cases by showing the flag and firing at sampans and villages along the banks. Those were our instructions, but they seemed so out of line that we finally began to go ashore, against our orders, and investigate the villages that were supposed to be our targets. We discovered we were butchering a lot of innocent people, and morale became so low among the officers on those 'swift boats' that we were called back to Saigon for special instructions from Gen. Abrams. He told us we were doing the right thing. He said our efforts would help win the war in the long run. That's when I realized I could never remain silent about the realities of the war in Vietnam."

January 30, 1969 Kerry took over command of the PCF-94 swift boat.
February 20, 1969 Kerry and crew come under automatic weapon and rocket fire while on patrol in South Vietnam. Kerry was hit by shrapnel in his left thigh. He is awarded a second Purple Heart.
(Note: Kerry's account is disputed by the Swift Boat Veterans, some of whom state there was no enemy fire.)

February 28, 1969 Kerry and crew again drew intense enemy fire. Kerry charged Viet Cong positions, grounded his boat, pursued a Viet Cong fighter into a small hut, killed him, and retrieved his loaded rocket launcher. Kerry then led an assault party to secure the area, killing 10 Viet Cong with no American casualties. He is awarded a Silver Star "for conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action."
"In addition to Kerry's Silver Star PCF-94's performance on February 28 also earned Bronze Stars for Tommy Belodeau and Mike Medeiros and Navy Commendation Medals with Combat V Devices for Del Sandusky, Fred Short, and Gene Thorson," wrote author Douglas Brinkley (Tour of Duty: John Kerry and the Vietnam War).

There were actually three citations issued for Kerry's Silver Star. They are all available on johnkerry.com. See this table for comparisons.

FrontPage Magazine.com also reviewed the Silver Star controversy in the article, "John Kerry's Puzzling Silver Star Citations": "Now, on the heels of yet another revelation—that Kerry’s DD 214 (“Report of Transfer or Separation”), displayed on his website, shows his Silver Star embellished with an unauthorized “V” for valor—which makes it facially false and at variance with official government records (see our article, John Kerry’s Mysterious Combat “V”)—it has come to light that his Silver Star award is fraught with other peculiarities."

(Note: Former Navy Secretary John Lehman stated on August 27, 2004 that he no idea where a Silver Star citation displayed on Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry's campaign Web site came from. The citation appears over Lehman's signature.

(Note: Kerry's account is disputed by the Swift Boat Veterans.)

March 13, 1969 Patrolling the Bay Hap River with five other swift boats, Kerry's group is ambushed. Kerry is hit in the arm by an exploding mine while another boat is blown out of the water. Kerry turns his boat back toward the ambush to rescue survivors. "We were still under fire, and he was wounded at the time" recalled Jim Rassmann. Kerry pulled the Rassman into his boat, saving his life, and was awarded a third Purple Heart and a Bronze Star "For heroic achievement [and] great personal courage under fire."
There is a detailed summary of the contradictory accounts of this event in the report, "Forging a Paper Hero: The Mystery of Kerry's Medals": "Where the reports state that Kerry’s buttocks injury occurred when the mine exploded, Brinkley’s biography records the account of Kerry’s war journal that the shrapnel in Kerry’s buttocks came from throwing a grenade into a rice cache—as Kerry wrote, 'I got a piece of small grenade in my ass from one of the rice bin explosions.' Rassmann recalls the rice explosion incident occurring prior to the incident where Kerry pulled him out of the water. Kerry’s fellow officer Larry Thurlow reports that Kerry’s buttocks injury was a self-inflicted wound caused by Kerry setting off a grenade too close to a stock of rice he was trying to destroy. The after-action report mentions 'TWO TONS GRAIN AND RICE DESTROYED.'"

(Note: Kerry's account is disputed by the Swift Boat Veterans.)

March 17, 1969 The policy of Coastal Squadron 1, the swift boat command, was to send home any individual who is wounded three times in action. After sustaining his third wound from enemy action in Vietnam, Kerry was granted relief under this policy.


Lucky for John Freaking Kerry (who served in Vietnam) that he was able to apply and receive 3 purple hearts in roughly 3 months to get out of Vietnam, what a hero, what a gem :)

http://www.archive-news.net/Kerry/JK_timeline.html


the website has a full detail of the time line from birth to date but this was the roughly three months I am speaking of.
 
So, by your thinking, only people "there" can really know issue. Those not "there" can't know the issue like those that were "there."

John Kerry disgraced his country when he returned and lied about American troops. He is a liar and a fraud. He is also a disgusting opportunist only interested in power and money...a liberal politician.

The Swift Boat Veterans were THERE and they know what a dishonest person Kerry is. You weren't THERE. They were. They are right.

Right?

No. The swiftboaters claimed to have been there. Most of them were not I know that you weren't there. Kerry was there.

The motive of the swiftboaters was pretty clear: They wanted Bush to win a second term, and were willing to say whatever was necessary to discredit his opponent. Pure dirty politics, such as we see all of the time.

Kerry volunteered for service in Vietnam. He must have believed in the war, before he went, just as you seem to now. After having seen what actually was happening, he then came out and told the truth. There was no concievable advantage to Kerry personally for having said what he did. Yet, people who were never there, who have no clue what went on, are saying that he lied, and why? Pure partisanship, that's why.
 
(deleted because the post was too long. It can be read above anyway)

From the same site:.


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MUST READ ARTICLES

Kerry's Disloyal Nicaraguan Journey

Don't Forget 'The John Kerry Committee'

When John Kerry's Courage Went M.I.A. - Senator covered up evidence of P.O.W.'s left behind

Cash-and-Kerry, Part Two

Seared in Their Memories

This is obviously taken from the archives of the swiftboaters. It has no more credibility than the Onion, and isn't even funny.

Yes, an error did occur. It was when the swiftboaters, many of whom were not on a swiftboat, more of whom never saw Kerry there, came out decades later to spew nonsense in order to sway an election.

You can honestly say you don't like Kerry because he is a Democrat, and we can all respect that. You can't say that he lied for personal gain, as what he did and said served him no personal advantage.

But back to the original premise: Dissent is the purest form of patriotism, and dissent during this terrible time in our history was the duty of every free American. The government of the United States was wrong, as it often is, and it was up to we, the people, to set it straight. How anyone who professes a distrust of government can fail to see that is a mystery. Maybe you had to live through that period in our history to really understand it.
 
From the same site:.




This is obviously taken from the archives of the swiftboaters. It has no more credibility than the Onion, and isn't even funny.

Yes, an error did occur. It was when the swiftboaters, many of whom were not on a swiftboat, more of whom never saw Kerry there, came out decades later to spew nonsense in order to sway an election.

You can honestly say you don't like Kerry because he is a Democrat, and we can all respect that. You can't say that he lied for personal gain, as what he did and said served him no personal advantage.

But back to the original premise: Dissent is the purest form of patriotism, and dissent during this terrible time in our history was the duty of every free American. The government of the United States was wrong, as it often is, and it was up to we, the people, to set it straight. How anyone who professes a distrust of government can fail to see that is a mystery. Maybe you had to live through that period in our history to really understand it.

I think I trust the men from the swift boat far more than kerry.

I followed this stuff during that election though I admit i wasn't born for much of this and a toddler for the rest of the war.

Are you disputing that kerry applied for himself to receive 3 purple hearts in an aprox. 3 month span then applied to go home since you can when you get 3 purple hearts? If you want to believe kerry for what he did in Vietnam over the swift boat men, thats ok but the time line its self is harder to dispute isn't it? I mean the record was written on when he went to Vietnam when he applied for his purple hearts and when he applied to be cut loose of Vietnam

During the 2004 election there were clips of kerry saying he remembered vividly being in Vietnam when MLK died, but he had not actually gone to Vietnam yet, he also had a false memory of where he was when JFK died.
(I could have those two event backwards, but either way both events he was not where he said he was and one of the events he claimed to be in Vietnam)

Its like trusting a used car salesman... ugh.

Personally I think it was sick for him to throw another guys metals away pretending they were his while he kept his metals all along. I cannot find anything positive to say about kerry. I probably could find 2 good things to say about obama for ever decent thing I could say about John Freaking Kerry (who served in Vietnam.)

I bet you voted for kerry :)
 
February 28, 1969 Kerry and crew again drew intense enemy fire. Kerry charged Viet Cong positions, grounded his boat, pursued a Viet Cong fighter into a small hut, killed him, and retrieved his loaded rocket launcher. Kerry then led an assault party to secure the area, killing 10 Viet Cong with no American casualties. He is awarded a Silver Star "for conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action."
"In addition to Kerry's Silver Star PCF-94's performance on February 28 also earned Bronze Stars for Tommy Belodeau and Mike Medeiros and Navy Commendation Medals with Combat V Devices for Del Sandusky, Fred Short, and Gene Thorson," wrote author Douglas Brinkley (Tour of Duty: John Kerry and the Vietnam War).

There were actually three citations issued for Kerry's Silver Star. They are all available on johnkerry.com. See this table for comparisons.

FrontPage Magazine.com also reviewed the Silver Star controversy in the article, "John Kerry's Puzzling Silver Star Citations": "Now, on the heels of yet another revelation—that Kerry’s DD 214 (“Report of Transfer or Separation”), displayed on his website, shows his Silver Star embellished with an unauthorized “V” for valor—which makes it facially false and at variance with official government records (see our article, John Kerry’s Mysterious Combat “V”)—it has come to light that his Silver Star award is fraught with other peculiarities."

(Note: Former Navy Secretary John Lehman stated on August 27, 2004 that he no idea where a Silver Star citation displayed on Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry's campaign Web site came from. The citation appears over Lehman's signature.

(Note: Kerry's account is disputed by the Swift Boat Veterans.)
I cut out most of the anti-Kerry blather to focus on this one incident, which is disputed by the Swift Boat Veterans for "truth", even though another poster says that most of them didn't have a problem with Kerry's medals.

So, while Kerry's (the Navy's) account of this incident is disputed by the SBV"t", strangely enough, it is not disputed by a single one of the 25 guys present. I guess FrontPage, or wherever you got this from forgot to mention that, didn't they?

So, on the outside chance anyone reading your post thinks that any of those present for this incident disputes what Kerry/the Navy says happened, they should be advised that is flat out, 100%, false.

Turns out there was one member in that group of 25 present for that incident (there were three Swift Boats involved, along with a few extra people) who was a member of the Swift Boat Veterans for "truth". His name is Larry Lee. While he did not support Kerry for president, he did support Kerry receiving the Silver Star.

Strangely enough, there is no mention of that at FrontPage, NewsMax or in Unfit for Command :)

To recap -- 25 guys present for the Silver Star incident -- none of them dispute Kerry's account.

Doug Reese

PS. Where did you come up with the Kerry "led an assault party to secure the area, killing 10 Viet Cong" nonsense? That is not in any paperwork, nor has it claimed by anyone present that day. Bottom line -- it's a totally unsubstantiated lie.
 
I cut out most of the anti-Kerry blather to focus on this one incident, which is disputed by the Swift Boat Veterans for "truth", even though another poster says that most of them didn't have a problem with Kerry's medals.

So, while Kerry's (the Navy's) account of this incident is disputed by the SBV"t", strangely enough, it is not disputed by a single one of the 25 guys present. I guess FrontPage, or wherever you got this from forgot to mention that, didn't they?

So, on the outside chance anyone reading your post thinks that any of those present for this incident disputes what Kerry/the Navy says happened, they should be advised that is flat out, 100%, false.

Turns out there was one member in that group of 25 present for that incident (there were three Swift Boats involved, along with a few extra people) who was a member of the Swift Boat Veterans for "truth". His name is Larry Lee. While he did not support Kerry for president, he did support Kerry receiving the Silver Star.

Strangely enough, there is no mention of that at FrontPage, NewsMax or in Unfit for Command :)

To recap -- 25 guys present for the Silver Star incident -- none of them dispute Kerry's account.

Doug Reese

PS. Where did you come up with the Kerry "led an assault party to secure the area, killing 10 Viet Cong" nonsense? That is not in any paperwork, nor has it claimed by anyone present that day. Bottom line -- it's a totally unsubstantiated lie.


Sorry but the "blather" you deleted was the only thing I was really talking about. I did not "come up" with any of this. Its from the website posted.

I was asked in a previous post where I came up with the idea that John Freaking Kerry (who served in Vietnam) spent 3 months in Vietnam. I posted a time line for the purpose of showing when he entered Vietnam and when he started applying for his purple hearts to get himself out of Vietnam.
 
Sorry but the "blather" you deleted was the only thing I was really talking about. I did not "come up" with any of this. Its from the website posted.

I was asked in a previous post where I came up with the idea that John Freaking Kerry (who served in Vietnam) spent 3 months in Vietnam. I posted a time line for the purpose of showing when he entered Vietnam and when he started applying for his purple hearts to get himself out of Vietnam.

Well done Pandy.

Many libs and independents have no knowledge of F-ing Kerry's 3 month military career in Vietnam. The left wing news outlets never told them the truth.

Kerry's deceit and treasonous actions after coming home were committed solely for personal gain. And, boy did he gain power and money.

It is so easy to take advantage of libs. Its like taking candy from a baby if you are lying sack of sh*t.

But Hey...I looking forward to emptying my bladder on Hanoi Jane!!!:)

396409843v18_480x480_Front.jpg
 
Kerry's deceit and treasonous actions after coming home were committed solely for personal gain.
"...treasonous actions...", like exercising his right to "freedom of speech", and " right of peaceful assembly"?
 
Sorry but the "blather" you deleted was the only thing I was really talking about. I did not "come up" with any of this. Its from the website posted.

I was asked in a previous post where I came up with the idea that John Freaking Kerry (who served in Vietnam) spent 3 months in Vietnam. I posted a time line for the purpose of showing when he entered Vietnam and when he started applying for his purple hearts to get himself out of Vietnam.
Of course you came up with it -- from the website(s) you mentioned. I didn't think you actually knew any of that to be true personally.

As for myself, I do know it is true personally. I do know, personally, that those are lies regarding the Silver Star incident (The bit about Kerry leading an assualt party that killed 10 VC shows how ignorant the people at that website really are). The website is full of _ _ it. And if the rest of it was "the only thing you were talking about", then why post the part I focused on? . . . . The "rest" of it is pockmarked with lies too. I just wanted to take on the portion I know about personally, not from a website, etc.

The lies in your post are just that -- lies. The website lied. You posted lies.

Kerry spent over four months in Vietnam. Roughly three months of that time was spent in a combat position. The fact is, Kerry was in more combat than 80% (perhaps more) of those who went to Vietnam. Most were in support positions of one degree or another. While vitally important, they were either never in combat, or saw very little combat.

Anyone who claims Kerry "tried" to get Purple Hearts is a fool in my eyes. I mean, who "tries" to get wounded. Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?

All of the incidents where Kerry received a PH were witnessed by multiple people. He still has shrapnel in his leg from the second one.

Doug Reese
 
I think I trust the men from the swift boat far more than kerry.

That's because you hate Kerry for being a liberal Democrat. The facts of his service in Vietnam and subsequent protest of that war have nothing to do with his party affiliation.

I bet you voted for kerry :)

Nope. I cast a protest vote, as usual, for the Libertarians. I did vote for McCarthy, however, even though he had no more chance of winning than any Libertarian ever did. That was another protest vote, against the "war" in Vietnam.

Stay clean for Gene!

Hey, hey, LBJ, how many kids did you kill today?
 
Yes, he has that right. But, that does not preclude his actions from being considered treasonous.

A real American no only has the right to protest government action that is wrong, he has an obligation to do so.

You are excused from protesting the Vietnam "police action", not having been born yet.
 
Werbung:
Yes, he has that right. But, that does not preclude his actions from being considered treasonous.
"considered treasonous", by whom? By you no doubt. But that begs the question: Who put you in charge of deciding what actions are legitimate exercising of rights, and treason? I must have missed that vote.
 
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