Implementation of Obamacare

[Gipper]

I would not consider Obama et al. idiots. I think of them more as negligent and irresponsible.

Okay. Another question.

Compared to those TP pols you mentioned and Obama, Reid, and Pelosi, who has done and will continue to do more damage to the nation?

 

[Gipper]

Lets give Bubba credit for realizing that there was no chance of him moveing his agenda nor halting Gingrich's and so he cleverly chose to ride that tide lest he be crushed by it. But no one in government had a hand in the dot com boom (one could argue Greenspan). That boom eas the reason for the narrowed deficit. yes deficit as it was SS surplus going to the general fund as though it were income that allowed the illusion of surplus.

Many on the Left today love and admire BJ Bubba. A man who is proven to be a liar, womanizer, and was one of only two presidents in our history to be impeached. The left gives him all the credit for nearly generating a surplus and balancing the budget. They give no credit to the R congress that forced his hand. Does anyone believe BJ Bubba would have done those things without the R congress?

Those same leftists love to condemn W and the Rs for deficit spending and rightfully so, but say little about Big Ears unprecedented deficit spending.

 

[Gipper]

If you like those tea party idiots, fine. If you want me to name the establishments destroying the fiscal integrity of America, that's easy:
It is every executive, senate, and house branch in the past few decades with the single exception of Bill Clinton's.

Here is a very good summation of where we are...

At its core, the shutdown is part of a much bigger battle to restrain the federal government. It is spending $3.6 trillion per year without a budget, and its expenditures are expected to increase rapidly in the years ahead.

Meanwhile, the government has piled up $17 trillion in debt and $60 trillion more in unfunded spending promises. The Federal Reserve will borrow $1.1 trillion in 2013 alone to buy bonds—and it reserves the right to borrow unlimited amounts for future bond purchases without congressional or presidential permission.

These are crisis-level problems. Whether the government is open or closed, they are surely grounds for immediate talks between the president and Congress on ways to pare ineffective federal programs, restrain spending and reduce borrowing.

Ducking governance decisions year after year will leave the U.S. too weak to face global challenges. Big government has meant slow growth, painfully high youth and minority unemployment and falling median incomes—except in the Washington, D.C., area, which recent census data show is growing ever richer.

Under current law, the federal government and Federal Reserve are in a sharp upward trajectory in their power and the riskiness of their policies. Federal domination of the economy and financial markets is only increasing. The government shutdown reflects a Republican demand for permanent new checks and balances—to restrain a government that spends wildly without a budget, buys $1 trillion per year in overpriced bonds from an already-rich Wall Street, and micromanages federal medical care but exempts unions and Congress from the sting of regulations that affect others.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304626104579123403196916722.html?mod=opinion_newsreel

And yet, some Americans foolishly and naively blame the Tea Party for causing some, if not all, of our problems.

Amazingly the Tea Party holds almost no power in our government or our nation generally. They represent only a handful of members in Congress. They have few advocates in the media and consistently face attacks from the establishment. The very same establishment that is responsible for the crisis we face.

How can some Americans be so blind?

 

[Lagboltz]

Okay. Another question.

Compared to those TP pols you mentioned and Obama, Reid, and Pelosi, who has done and will continue to do more damage to the nation?

The TP will do more damage in the long and short run.

In the short run they are paralyzing congress; forcing Boehner's hand in creating fiscal damage to the global image of the US.

If, in the long run, the TP had their wishes, the US could possibly turn into a dystopia for the majority of the population. I have not seen them give a rational alternative to climate change, abortion issues, gun issues, poverty, and the growing distance between the top 1% and the 99% etc.

If you start challenging me on those issues, I won't respond because they have been hashed over time and again.

 

[Lagboltz]

Many on the Left today love and admire BJ Bubba. A man who is proven to be a liar, womanizer, and was one of only two presidents in our history to be impeached.

Clinton was fiscally responsible, and morally irresponsible. Yet that moral aspect seems to overwhelm your view of him.

 

[Lagboltz]

Amazingly the Tea Party holds almost no power in our government or our nation generally. They represent only a handful of members in Congress. They have few advocates in the media and consistently face attacks from the establishment. The very same establishment that is responsible for the crisis we face.

Yes, it is amazing. It seems that the Republicans have an unnatural fear of the TP. The TP reps in congress are like vicious dogs with sharp teeth ready to rip into Repubs that they disagree with. Outside congress they threaten conservative candidates they disagree with.

 

[Texas_tea]

Yes, it is amazing. It seems that the Republicans have an unnatural fear of the TP. The TP reps in congress are like vicious dogs with sharp teeth ready to rip into Repubs that they disagree with. Outside congress they threaten conservative candidates they disagree with.

Really ....

They actually threaten other conservative candidates outside Congress? Do you have a reference for this wildly and insane claim?

 

[Texas_tea]

How can some Americans be so blind?

It's called liberalism Gip .... and it is a mental disorder!

 

[Gipper]

The TP will do more damage in the long and short run.

In the short run they are paralyzing congress; forcing Boehner's hand in creating fiscal damage to the global image of the US.

If, in the long run, the TP had their wishes, the US could possibly turn into a dystopia for the majority of the population. I have not seen them give a rational alternative to climate change, abortion issues, gun issues, poverty, and the growing distance between the top 1% and the 99% etc.

If you start challenging me on those issues, I won't respond because they have been hashed over time and again.

You have NO proof that the TP will do more damage...unless of course, you are a welfare drug queen afraid they will take your goodies away.

All the TP wants is getting our fiscal house is order. If Big Ears and the Ds had reduced deficit spending and stopped the expansion of the welfare state, the TP would have disappeared.

Apparently you think reducing government spending is not a good idea. You and Nancy Pelosi agree...there is nothing left to cut.

Blaming the TP over the Establish is akin to seeing a tornado barreling down on you and you're upset because your neighbor's dog is barking too much.

 

[dogtowner]

You have NO proof that the TP will do more damage...unless of course, you are a welfare drug queen afraid they will take your goodies away.

All the TP wants is getting our fiscal house is order. If Big Ears and the Ds had reduced deficit spending and stopped the expansion of the welfare state, the TP would have disappeared.

Apparently you think reducing government spending is not a good idea. You and Nancy Pelosi agree...there is nothing left to cut.

Blaming the TP over the Establish is akin to seeing a tornado barreling down on you and you're upset because your neighbor's dog is barking too much.

The tea party damaged itself when it lost focus on the one thing that people of any stripe could agree on, that we are TAXED ENOUGH ALREADY. But polititians saw a niche for themselves to obtain money for the endless campaign but insisted on making a political party and so trying to drag blocs into the fold by adding distracting planks to the platform. Same thing happened to the OCCs.
Taxed enough already was the perfect rallying point that could be directed at any career pol of any party.

 

[Lagboltz]

You have NO proof that the TP will do more damage...unless of course, you are a welfare drug queen afraid they will take your goodies away.

All the TP wants is getting our fiscal house is order. If Big Ears and the Ds had reduced deficit spending and stopped the expansion of the welfare state, the TP would have disappeared.

That is not their only goal. Certainly it is their primary TP goal. Go to the following link. There are lots of references to the non-fiscal issues that I mentioned concerning TP supporters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement#Polling_of_supporters

“Welfare drug queen” is an oft-referenced icon of the conservatives. The liberal image of those needing assistance are older people whose IRA's were depleted by bursting bubbles, or families whose income is depleted by huge hospitalization costs, or families where one spouse is disabled and the other can only find minimum wage jobs.

Our beloved TP Rick Scott had the same perception as you about welfare druggies and had applicants do a drug test with their own money. This is what happened.

http://nytimes.com/2012/04/18/us/no-savings-found-in-florida-welfare-drug-tests.html
… Because the Florida law requires that applicants who pass the test be reimbursed for the cost, an average of $30, the cost to the state was $118,140. This is more than would have been paid out in benefits to the people who failed the test, Mr. Newton said.
As a result, the testing cost the government an extra $45,780, he said.
And the testing did not have the effect some predicted. An internal document about Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, or TANF, caseloads stated that the drug testing policy, at least from July through September, did not lead to fewer cases...

Apparently you think reducing government spending is not a good idea. You and Nancy Pelosi agree...there is nothing left to cut.

Blaming the TP over the Establish is akin to seeing a tornado barreling down on you and you're upset because your neighbor's dog is barking too much.

Why are you ignoring my previous posts concerning Pelosi? See post #53 again.

There are two tornados. A fiscal tornado and a poverty tornado. Do you have any idea on how to curtail the poverty tornado if the fiscal tornado is squelched? Do you even care?

Rather than create a poverty nation the budget can be cut in many places including wasteful military spending, farm and oil subsidies, foreign aid, etc. Another problem is that we are virtually subsidizing Walmart and McDonalds. Their low wages are not enough to live on, so workers are eligible for welfare that the government pays. Click THIS for their solution and how happy you would be with a min wage job.

My feeling is that it's a dilemma -- no fix will work. We are screwed.

 

[Gipper]

That is not their only goal. Certainly it is their primary TP goal. Go to the following link. There are lots of references to the non-fiscal issues that I mentioned concerning TP supporters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement#Polling_of_supporters

“Welfare drug queen” is an oft-referenced icon of the conservatives. The liberal image of those needing assistance are older people whose IRA's were depleted by bursting bubbles, or families whose income is depleted by huge hospitalization costs, or families where one spouse is disabled and the other can only find minimum wage jobs.

Our beloved TP Rick Scott had the same perception as you about welfare druggies and had applicants do a drug test with their own money. This is what happened.

http://nytimes.com/2012/04/18/us/no-savings-found-in-florida-welfare-drug-tests.html
… Because the Florida law requires that applicants who pass the test be reimbursed for the cost, an average of $30, the cost to the state was $118,140. This is more than would have been paid out in benefits to the people who failed the test, Mr. Newton said.
As a result, the testing cost the government an extra $45,780, he said.
And the testing did not have the effect some predicted. An internal document about Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, or TANF, caseloads stated that the drug testing policy, at least from July through September, did not lead to fewer cases...


Why are you ignoring my previous posts concerning Pelosi? See post #53 again.

There are two tornados. A fiscal tornado and a poverty tornado. Do you have any idea on how to curtail the poverty tornado if the fiscal tornado is squelched? Do you even care?

Rather than create a poverty nation the budget can be cut in many places including wasteful military spending, farm and oil subsidies, foreign aid, etc. Another problem is that we are virtually subsidizing Walmart and McDonalds. Their low wages are not enough to live on, so workers are eligible for welfare that the government pays. Click THIS for their solution and how happy you would be with a min wage job.

My feeling is that it's a dilemma -- no fix will work. We are screwed.

Again you fail to comprehend the gravity of the situation. Our corrupt politicians of both parties along with wealthy oligrachs have bankrupted the nation. You might research Weimar Germany to find out what happened there, because it is likely to happen here, if we continue to deficit spend, which is exactly what the establishment intends to do.

And again, your dislike of the TP is purely based on your left wing bias. Another analogy... if you are about to be killed by nefarious forces and someone is trying to help you, do you accept their help or not? In your case, you decide not to accept their help because you dislike the clothes they wear, their bad breath, and their full beard.

It is nonsensical.

We do have a choice and it can be fixed without harming your beloved social programs. But, again you make no sense. You demand those programs continue, but refuse to comprehend that if we continue to follow the establishment, which you intend to do, those programs disappear and millions of Americans become impovished. The only force trying to stop the coming impovishment, is the TP.

It is nonsensical.

 

[dogtowner]

It doesnt matter if there are 2 parties or 200, it boils down to a coallition with enough similar thinking to gel. Internal disagreements will wash out fringe policy. To reduce the choices to cult of personality status is pointless and needless.

 

[Lagboltz]

Again you fail to comprehend the gravity of the situation. Our corrupt politicians of both parties along with wealthy oligrachs have bankrupted the nation.

I'm impressed that you grasp that aspect of the gravity of the situation, which is ordinarily a concern of liberals. The TP has not put focus on the oligarchs.

We do have a choice and it can be fixed without harming your beloved social programs. But, again you make no sense. You demand those programs continue, but refuse to comprehend that if we continue to follow the establishment, which you intend to do, those programs disappear and millions of Americans become impovished. The only force trying to stop the coming impovishment, is the TP.

I am intrigued. What is your idea on fixing the economy and still keep the social programs. I already told you mine. End subsidies of any sort. Cut the military expenses. Cut out foreign aid, etc.

Also the TP consistently push for lower taxation. That's insane. That does nothing to combat the wealthy oligarchs you mentioned unless we eliminate loopholes, increase the capital gains tax, etc. We do not need to tax corporations any further. We just need to close the loopholes. I'm sure you heard the Buffet/receptionist tax story.

We let financial institutions get away with larceny. Even if this story is half true, it is still idiocy
http://www.rutlandherald.com/article/20130221/OPINION04/702219911/0/SEARCH
In 2010, Bank of America set up more than 200 subsidiaries in the Cayman Islands (which has a corporate tax rate of 0.0 percent) to avoid paying U.S. taxes. It worked. Not only did Bank of America pay nothing in federal income taxes, but it received a rebate from the IRS worth $1.9 billion that year. It is not alone. That same year, JP Morgan Chase operated 83 subsidiaries incorporated in offshore tax havens to avoid paying some $4.9 billion in U.S. taxes. Goldman Sachs operated 39 subsidiaries in offshore tax havens to avoid an estimated $3.3 billion in U.S. taxes. Citigroup has paid no federal income taxes for the last four years after receiving a total of $2.5 trillion in financial assistance from the Federal Reserve during the financial crisis. On and on it goes.

If the TP would concentrate on tax and subsidy problems, and eliminate their social platform distractions, I seriously would join the TP. They are currently heading in the wrong direction and shooting themselves in the foot as far as public opinion (ie, MSM).

 

[Texas_tea]

Thousands of doctors fired by United HealthCare

NEW HAVEN, Conn. (WTNH)-- In the midst of major changes in health care, UnitedHealthCare has sent thousands of pink slips to Connecticut doctors.
Termination letters went to physicians caring for Medicare patients. Those letters were sent out to doctors caring for 'Medicare Advantage' patients. It's a plan, marketed to Seniors to provide additional services through UnitedHealthCare.