Is Christianity compatable with Communism

[BigRob]

There is a difference between making a living by the sweat of your brow and charging all the market will bear. Capitalism is a greed-based system, advertising enflames the greed and dissatisfaction; charity, kindness, compassion, and love of others goes right out the window

Capitalism creates more wealth than any system known to man. This allows for more charity, kindness, and compassion when people create extra wealth and can use it as they see fit to help people.

and you have giant corporations selling poison in addictive little sticks to children. You end up with vast fortunes being made by people who profit off war. How many examples do you need? The banks that just stole billions from some of the poorest people in the country? The credit card companies adding fees and charging usurious interest rates? How many homeless and hungry people are there in this country? Why did Reagan turn out the inmates of mental institutions? Why do hospitals and cities give free rides to people to get rid of them? How many people were lied to by lending institutions and now are losing their homes because of it?

It seems that you are pointing to political issues and saying because of that Christianity cannot exist with Capitalism. No where in Christian teachings does it say you shall be a ward of the state, and are entitled to X,Y,Z. Donations in the private sector are more efficient at helping people anyway.

 

[Dante the Marxist]

Capitalism creates more wealth than any system known to man. This allows for more charity, kindness, and compassion when people create extra wealth and can use it as they see fit to help people.

That is a terrible misconception. Firstly, when a small number of people acquired more wealth a few hundred years after agriculture developed, it set off a chain reaction. Society before this event was based on sharing the food. Early man would go out to hunt and returned to his tribe with meat, while the women would gather wild vegetables and bring them back to the tribe. Then they would all share the food. This routine developed over the millenia to become the basis of human society and became quite a bit more advanced. When the few wealthy people came along, the first link in the chain was the complete trashing of the food-sharing. The wealthy refused to share thier food, which was how they became wealthy in the first place. They would have others trade more valuable things for the food. This was the basis of Capitalism, and still is today. Soon after the entire basis of human society was destroyed, the Capitalists realised something: If they could take the goods, who's to stop them from stealing the land. Now the agricultural system of the time, communal ownership and harvesting, which was a product of the food-sharing, was ruined. There is evidence of mass starvation in all parts of the world at that time. Now the Capitalists controlled the means of production. To till and develope thier lands, they enslaved thier neighbors, using armies bribed with the rare sight of food. The male Capitalists realised that if they can enslave thier neighbors, they could enslave thier wives. That crumbling sound you hear is the status of women. The Capitalists, having secured complete control over nearly everyone and everthing they set thier eyes on, used some of thier wealth to build monuments to themselves to be worshipped. Thus began organised religioun. By now, most of the world was divided between the Capitalist's land holdings. The Capitalists now wanted to steal each other's wealth. Thus began war and the concept of the state, which was the massive apparattus that the Capitalist used to stay in control of his land. During the competitions that are called wars, Capitalists invented rascism to stir up hate against thier rivals, and ageism so that they could force thier propaganda down the throats of children with no resistance.

There you have it:
War
Starvation
The State
Corruption
Slavery
Sexism
Ageism
Rascism
Organised Religioun

All Capitalism's fault.

 

[PLC1]

That is a terrible misconception. Firstly, when a small number of people acquired more wealth a few hundred years after agriculture developed, it set off a chain reaction. Society before this event was based on sharing the food. Early man would go out to hunt and returned to his tribe with meat, while the women would gather wild vegetables and bring them back to the tribe. Then they would all share the food. This routine developed over the millenia to become the basis of human society and became quite a bit more advanced. When the few wealthy people came along, the first link in the chain was the complete trashing of the food-sharing. The wealthy refused to share thier food, which was how they became wealthy in the first place. They would have others trade more valuable things for the food. This was the basis of Capitalism, and still is today. Soon after the entire basis of human society was destroyed, the Capitalists realised something: If they could take the goods, who's to stop them from stealing the land. Now the agricultural system of the time, communal ownership and harvesting, which was a product of the food-sharing, was ruined. There is evidence of mass starvation in all parts of the world at that time. Now the Capitalists controlled the means of production. To till and develope thier lands, they enslaved thier neighbors, using armies bribed with the rare sight of food. The male Capitalists realised that if they can enslave thier neighbors, they could enslave thier wives. That crumbling sound you hear is the status of women. The Capitalists, having secured complete control over nearly everyone and everthing they set thier eyes on, used some of thier wealth to build monuments to themselves to be worshipped. Thus began organised religioun. By now, most of the world was divided between the Capitalist's land holdings. The Capitalists now wanted to steal each other's wealth. Thus began war and the concept of the state, which was the massive apparattus that the Capitalist used to stay in control of his land. During the competitions that are called wars, Capitalists invented rascism to stir up hate against thier rivals, and ageism so that they could force thier propaganda down the throats of children with no resistance.

There you have it:
War
Starvation
The State
Corruption
Slavery
Sexism
Ageism
Rascism
Organised Religioun

All Capitalism's fault.

There are still societies in which land is owned collectively by the village, not the state, the village. If there is hunger in the village, then everyone shares that hunger, but there is no guarantee that everyone, or anyone, will have enough.

Racism existed long before anyone thought of capitalism. It has been a part of human society ever since OG saw that Grog looked different from the people of his tribe, and decided to go and kill as many of Grog's people as he could. Racism is as old as man.

Organized religion started about the same time, sometime before written language was invented to record the event. Religion is as old as humanity as well.

Humans fought wars back when the cutting edge weapons were made of flint. Warfare is nothing new.

None of the above evils were invented by capitalism, nor would they be cured by socialism.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Capitalism creates more wealth than any system known to man. This allows for more charity, kindness, and compassion when people create extra wealth and can use it as they see fit to help people.



It seems that you are pointing to political issues and saying because of that Christianity cannot exist with Capitalism. No where in Christian teachings does it say you shall be a ward of the state, and are entitled to X,Y,Z. Donations in the private sector are more efficient at helping people anyway.

The only problem is that it doesn't work, as evidenced by the fact that the richest 1% of the population control more wealth than the bottom 95% and there are homeless people all over this country.

Capitalism has removed the stigma of being vastly wealthy at the expense of one's countrymen, it has taught us that a person DESERVES all the wealth and power they can accumulate. All of this is in direct contravention to the teachings of Jesus.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

There are still societies in which land is owned collectively by the village, not the state, the village. If there is hunger in the village, then everyone shares that hunger, but there is no guarantee that everyone, or anyone, will have enough.

Racism existed long before anyone thought of capitalism. It has been a part of human society ever since OG saw that Grog looked different from the people of his tribe, and decided to go and kill as many of Grog's people as he could. Racism is as old as man.

Organized religion started about the same time, sometime before written language was invented to record the event. Religion is as old as humanity as well.

Humans fought wars back when the cutting edge weapons were made of flint. Warfare is nothing new.

None of the above evils were invented by capitalism, nor would they be cured by socialism.

To a large extent I agree with your post, but the Capitalism/Socialism dichotomy is incorrect in that we don't have just 2 choices.

Labeling the whole list of human evils as products of Capitalism is also incorrect, fear and greed are found in all cultures to some extent--the problem is that organized Capitalism endorses fear and greed, it uses them to drive people to exploit their neighbors, and in this way it panders to the lowest common denominator in the human specie. The production and accumulation of wealth become the standard by which all human achievement is measured, everything is for sale (look at our government), you can buy organs, children, slaves (but you don't call them that), murder, drugs... anything can be bought with enough money. Anyone who pays attention knows that the death penalty is applied disproportionately to poor people while the rich can buy "justice".

Unbridled Capitalism is nothing more than an institutionalized philosophy of Might is Right.

 

[Dante the Marxist]

There are still societies in which land is owned collectively by the village, not the state, the village. If there is hunger in the village, then everyone shares that hunger, but there is no guarantee that everyone, or anyone, will have enough.

And in Capitalism there is a gaurantee that not everyone will have enough.

Racism existed long before anyone thought of capitalism. It has been a part of human society ever since OG saw that Grog looked different from the people of his tribe, and decided to go and kill as many of Grog's people as he could. Racism is as old as man.

I guess I listen to what I hear to much. Sorry.

Organized religion started about the same time, sometime before written language was invented to record the event. Religion is as old as humanity as well.

I am not talking about religioun, I am talking about organised religioun. Sure, there were animal cults back in the stone age. But there was no religious hierarchy.

Humans fought wars back when the cutting edge weapons were made of flint. Warfare is nothing new.

The most people fought with in the stone age were other species of animals.

 

[BigRob]

That is a terrible misconception. Firstly, when a small number of people acquired more wealth a few hundred years after agriculture developed, it set off a chain reaction. Society before this event was based on sharing the food. Early man would go out to hunt and returned to his tribe with meat, while the women would gather wild vegetables and bring them back to the tribe. Then they would all share the food. This routine developed over the millenia to become the basis of human society and became quite a bit more advanced. When the few wealthy people came along, the first link in the chain was the complete trashing of the food-sharing. The wealthy refused to share thier food, which was how they became wealthy in the first place. They would have others trade more valuable things for the food. This was the basis of Capitalism, and still is today. Soon after the entire basis of human society was destroyed, the Capitalists realised something: If they could take the goods, who's to stop them from stealing the land. Now the agricultural system of the time, communal ownership and harvesting, which was a product of the food-sharing, was ruined. There is evidence of mass starvation in all parts of the world at that time. Now the Capitalists controlled the means of production. To till and develope thier lands, they enslaved thier neighbors, using armies bribed with the rare sight of food. The male Capitalists realised that if they can enslave thier neighbors, they could enslave thier wives. That crumbling sound you hear is the status of women. The Capitalists, having secured complete control over nearly everyone and everthing they set thier eyes on, used some of thier wealth to build monuments to themselves to be worshipped. Thus began organised religioun. By now, most of the world was divided between the Capitalist's land holdings. The Capitalists now wanted to steal each other's wealth. Thus began war and the concept of the state, which was the massive apparattus that the Capitalist used to stay in control of his land. During the competitions that are called wars, Capitalists invented rascism to stir up hate against thier rivals, and ageism so that they could force thier propaganda down the throats of children with no resistance.

There you have it:
War
Starvation
The State
Corruption
Slavery
Sexism
Ageism
Rascism
Organised Religioun

All Capitalism's fault.

Absurd. Early tribes still fought each other. They still had religion (in some form), they still starved, there was still corruption, and slavery.

The real cause for what you list is simply the inherent traits of man, not some form of economic system.

 

[BigRob]

The only problem is that it doesn't work, as evidenced by the fact that the richest 1% of the population control more wealth than the bottom 95% and there are homeless people all over this country.

Capitalism has removed the stigma of being vastly wealthy at the expense of one's countrymen, it has taught us that a person DESERVES all the wealth and power they can accumulate. All of this is in direct contravention to the teachings of Jesus.

When did Jesus say we do not deserve what we earned?

 

[PLC1]

And in Capitalism there is a gaurantee that not everyone will have enough.

Only if it isn't regulated by government. As it is, anyone can have the necessities of life in the advanced capitalist nations of the world if they want them.

I am not talking about religioun, I am talking about organised religioun. Sure, there were animal cults back in the stone age. But there was no religious hierarchy.

No, primitive people had their shamans, their belief systems, their hierarchies. If anything, they were more controlled by religion than modern man is. It's not like someone born into a sun worshiping culture could decide to change and worship the moon instead. Some of those cultures practiced human sacrifice to placate their deities as well.

The most people fought with in the stone age were other species of animals.

I think you need to take a class in anthropology if you believe that. Humans have warred with other humans at least as long as we've had a written language to record the battles, and most likely a lot longer than that. Warfare just might have been the cause of the extinction of the Neanderthals, but no one knows that for certain.

 

[dahermit]

When did Jesus say we do not deserve what we earned?

"What profit a man to gain the whole world but lose his own soul?"

Mat 19:16 ¶ And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and [thy] mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.
Mat 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Mat 19:23 ¶ Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. Mar 10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Hummmm? It seems that Jesus was not a big fan of people who have lots of possessions (keep what they have "earned").

 

[BigRob]

"What profit a man to gain the whole world but lose his own soul?"

Mat 19:16 ¶ And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and [thy] mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.
Mat 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Mat 19:23 ¶ Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. Mar 10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Hummmm? It seems that Jesus was not a big fan of people who have lots of possessions (keep what they have "earned").

Matthew 20:1-15
"For the Kingdom of Heaven is like unto a man that is a householder, who went out early in the morning to hire laborers into his vineyard. And when he had agreed with the laborers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard. And he went out about the third hour and saw others standing idle in the marketplace, and said unto them, `Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you.' And they went their way. Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour and did likewise. And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing idle, and said unto them, `Why stand ye here all the day idle?' They said unto him, `Because no man hath hired us.' He said unto them, `Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.' So when evening had come, the lord of the vineyard said unto his steward, `Call the laborers and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.' And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. But when the first came, they supposed they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny. And when they had received it, they murmured against the master of the house, saying, `These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us who have borne the burden and the heat of the day.' But he answered one of them and said, `Friend, I do thee no wrong. Didst thou not agree with me for a penny? Take that which is thine and go thy way. I will give unto this last, even as unto thee. Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?'

Romans 13:1
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. (Like Capitalism) For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

Seems that Jesus also says I can do what I want with my own money.

 

[GenSeneca]

Seems that Jesus also says I can do what I want with my own money.

If you read Matthew in context,

The individual asked what he could do for eternal life and Jesus answered: Follow the Commandments.

Notice that in the exchange that's quoted, there is one commandment conspicuously missing...

Jesus is confronting an individual that values his possessions above God: Have no Gods before me.

That was the individuals unfulfilled commandment, so Jesus told him to prove his loyalty and love of God by abandoning that which he held above God, his money and his possessions.

I am not religious, so if there are any Christians that wish to dispute my interpretation of the text, I welcome them to do so but I believe my understanding of Matthew to be an accurate one.
-------------------------------------

Now as for the title question... Yes and No.

Both Christianity and Communism are based on Collectivism and an Altruistic morality, so in that they are somewhat compatible.

Where they greatly differ is in free will and the use of force.

Since the Age of Enlightenment, Christianity does not teach that you can turn a sinner into a saint by the use of force, an individual must choose to have a relationship with God, by his own free will. Again, since I am not religious, if any Christians wish to disagree then speak up.

Communism on the other hand, relies on the use of force to stomp out any free will that stands in opposition to the party.

 

[dahermit]

When did Jesus say we do not deserve what we earned?

If you believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God; note that the references in the Bible about a rich man not entering the kingdom of God are repeated three times in a row in three subsequent books of the Bible...as if God were trying to pound something into your head. Yet, you still search the scriptures for an "out". If I were you (claiming to be a believer) I would be very concerned about where I was going to spend eternity.

 

[Dante the Marxist]

Only if it isn't regulated by government. As it is, anyone can have the necessities of life in the advanced capitalist nations of the world if they want them.

At the expense of the rest of the world.

No, primitive people had their shamans, their belief systems, their hierarchies. If anything, they were more controlled by religion than modern man is. It's not like someone born into a sun worshiping culture could decide to change and worship the moon instead. Some of those cultures practiced human sacrifice to placate their deities as well.

Fine, fine you win.

I think you need to take a class in anthropology if you believe that. Humans have warred with other humans at least as long as we've had a written language to record the battles, and most likely a lot longer than that. Warfare just might have been the cause of the extinction of the Neanderthals, but no one knows that for certain.

We had invented a written langauge only in Sumerian times, which were capitalist times.

 

[Dante the Marxist]

Absurd. Early tribes still fought each other. They still had religion (in some form), they still starved, there was still corruption, and slavery.

The real cause for what you list is simply the inherent traits of man, not some form of economic system.

See responses to the guy whose name starts with an "a" and has many capital letters.