After DREAM Act defeated in Senate, Obama admin enacts it anyway by Executive Order

[Rick]

Re: After DREAM Act defeated in Senate, Obama admin enacts it anyway by Executive Ord

"MAYBE" at 18 years old, if that "child" continues to hide the fact that he/she was brought to this country illegally, he/she may be expected to be accused of being part of a "crime."

There's no "maybe" about it - quit making a fool of yourself and read the law.

Also, you're blurring the committing of a crime with an illegal status. Whereas the children "maybe" have committed no crime, they are still here illegally and need to be sent back, with their parents.

 

[BigRob]

Re: After DREAM Act defeated in Senate, Obama admin enacts it anyway by Executive Ord

I continue to disagree. If a 10 year old child is told by his parents that he/she is moving to another country, what choice does he/she have?
That child is not expected to go to the nearest police station and denounce his/her parents for being illegal.

No...I don't think anyone would expect a 10 year old to go denounce their parents as an illegal immigrant.

"MAYBE" at 18 years old, if that "child" continues to hide the fact that he/she was brought to this country illegally, he/she may be expected to be accused of being part of a "crime."

There are only two types of immigration..legal and illegal...if you didn't come here legally, you are breaking the law by being here. It doesn't ultimately matter what age you are..the law doesn't say, "illegal immigration is ok as long as you are 5 years old or less."

However, many of those children don't even realize that their parents are considered "illegal" and they believe that they are just legal immigrants. They act and see themselves as first generation Americans, and in all the sense that matters, they are.

What is this based on?

You may find my comparison with "homegrown" criminal stupid. . .however, I find your idea that a 10 year old child, or even a 17 year old child who has grown up in this country with or without the knowledge that his parents brought him here illegally, is guilty of a crime even more stupid.

Arguing that you did not realize you committed a crime is no justification for committing a crime. Either you are here legally or not.

By the way, if a child, citizen of this country, is the witness or even if he is part of a crime, that child is NOT punished as an adult (unless the crime is so horrific and conducted so willfully that that child is the main criminal), but is usually put in a protective environment until the age of 18.

Fair enough, but the child is still punished...not simply told "you are a child, therefore no punishment."

I guess we will have to disagree on this point.

It does appear, but always good to have a good back and forth. Welcome to the site by the way.

 

[Openmind]

Re: After DREAM Act defeated in Senate, Obama admin enacts it anyway by Executive Ord

No...I don't think anyone would expect a 10 year old to go denounce their parents as an illegal immigrant.



There are only two types of immigration..legal and illegal...if you didn't come here legally, you are breaking the law by being here. It doesn't ultimately matter what age you are..the law doesn't say, "illegal immigration is ok as long as you are 5 years old or less."



What is this based on?



Arguing that you did not realize you committed a crime is no justification for committing a crime. Either you are here legally or not.



Fair enough, but the child is still punished...not simply told "you are a child, therefore no punishment."



It does appear, but always good to have a good back and forth. Welcome to the site by the way.

Thank you.
By the way, you asked "what is this based on?"
It's very simple, most kids do not worry about where they were born, or discuss at length how their parents came to a live in this country. They just take each day as it comes, trusting in their parents, trusting in their teachers, making friends, listening to the same cartoons, the same commercials, playing the same games. All this makes someone's identity, makes him/her consider where he/she lives his/her home. Although their parents may still speak spanish, they usually feel more comfortable speaking in English, and English becomes their first language.

As children go, all this doesn't differ between "legal" or "illegal." Not even between "Citizens" and "non-Citizens."
It is only much later that children may realize that their parents brought them to the US illegally. In the mean time, their identity is set as an American.

And. . .you sound like a fair person. Do you believe that every "crime" is equal? The way some people talk about illegal aliens, even those who didn't make the decision and/or may not have been aware that they came to the US illegally, it sounds like they have committed at least a willfull homicide!

 

[Rick]

Re: After DREAM Act defeated in Senate, Obama admin enacts it anyway by Executive Ord

Thank you.
By the way, you asked "what is this based on?"
It's very simple, most kids do not worry about where they were born, or discuss at length how their parents came to a live in this country. They just take each day as it comes, trusting in their parents, trusting in their teachers, making friends, listening to the same cartoons, the same commercials, playing the same games. All this makes someone's identity, makes him/her consider where he/she lives his/her home. Although their parents may still speak spanish, they usually feel more comfortable speaking in English, and English becomes their first language.

As children go, all this doesn't differ between "legal" or "illegal." Not even between "Citizens" and "non-Citizens."
It is only much later that children may realize that their parents brought them to the US illegally. In the mean time, their identity is set as an American.

And. . .you sound like a fair person. Do you believe that every "crime" is equal? The way some people talk about illegal aliens, even those who didn't make the decision and/or may not have been aware that they came to the US illegally, it sounds like they have committed at least a willfull homicide!

Among the MANY things you don't grasp about the reality is such children will speak spanish at home, broken english at school, and hispanics, particularly the illegal variety, have a very low assimilation rate. The illegal children will grow up thinking nothing other than that they are mexicans, and everything in their environment will reinforce that. They will have no particular identification with the united states, its history, government, or culture.

 

[Openmind]

Re: After DREAM Act defeated in Senate, Obama admin enacts it anyway by Executive Ord

Among the MANY things you don't grasp about the reality is such children will speak spanish at home, broken english at school, and hispanics, particularly the illegal variety, have a very low assimilation rate. The illegal children will grow up thinking nothing other than that they are mexicans, and everything in their environment will reinforce that. They will have no particular identification with the united states, its history, government, or culture.

Are you talking by experience, or just spilling what you "think" is reality?

I KNOW that this is not the case. I had a couple of co-workers who were raised by migrant workers (strawberry pickers in the Watsonville area in CA). They indeed spoke Spanish at home, but learned very early to be extremely proficient in English. They both graduated from universities in California and became Social workers. It is true that (at least for one of them) the mother still has difficulties in English and maintains her strong Spanish accent. But for both of my colleagues, there is NOT A TRACE of Spanish accent. However, they are able to be extremely efficient and do a great job with the Latino population because they are completely bilingual.

The assimilation of most first generation Latino is EXCELLENT. In fact, their bilingual ability is an advantage. Is that what scares you?

They grow up as Americans, and the ONLY reason they MAY continue to think of themselves as "Mexican Americans" is because of the prejudice that they too often encounter in the "mostly White" society. Latino culture certainly has as much right to be part of the US culture as Italians, Irish, or German. . .especially in the South West of this great country!

It sounds like. . .you may be the one having difficulties adapting to our great "melting pot!" So. . .what is YOUR background? Irish? German?
Whatever it is, I am pretty sure it doesn't include much "native" American!

 

[Rick]

Re: After DREAM Act defeated in Senate, Obama admin enacts it anyway by Executive Ord

Are you talking by experience, or just spilling what you "think" is reality?

I KNOW that this is not the case. I had a couple of co-workers who were raised by migrant workers (strawberry pickers in the Watsonville area in CA). They indeed spoke Spanish at home, but learned very early to be extremely proficient in English. They both graduated from universities in California and became Social workers. It is true that (at least for one of them) the mother still has difficulties in English and maintains her strong Spanish accent. But for both of my colleagues, there is NOT A TRACE of Spanish accent. However, they are able to be extremely efficient and do a great job with the Latino population because they are completely bilingual.

The assimilation of most first generation Latino is EXCELLENT. In fact, their bilingual ability is an advantage. Is that what scares you?

They grow up as Americans, and the ONLY reason they MAY continue to think of themselves as "Mexican Americans" is because of the prejudice that they too often encounter in the "mostly White" society. Latino culture certainly has as much right to be part of the US culture as Italians, Irish, or German. . .especially in the South West of this great country!

It sounds like. . .you may be the one having difficulties adapting to our great "melting pot!" So. . .what is YOUR background? Irish? German?
Whatever it is, I am pretty sure it doesn't include much "native" American!

You continue to make a fool of yourself, both by offering lame micro-anectodal "evidence", pulling absolutely false "facts" out of your ass, and of course, the last refuge of leftwingers on the illegal alien invasion issue - throwing the race card.

Studies show that assimilation rates for illegals is extremely poor on average. I've lived and worked in LA and Orange county for 18 years, and I know what I'm talking about from experience. Any native citizen who lives here, INCLUDING the hispanic citizens who were born here, would laugh in your face at your ignorance of the facts and your recitation of standard leftwing cant instead of the truth.

 

[Openmind]

Re: After DREAM Act defeated in Senate, Obama admin enacts it anyway by Executive Ord

You continue to make a fool of yourself, both by offering lame micro-anectodal "evidence", pulling absolutely false "facts" out of your ass, and of course, the last refuge of leftwingers on the illegal alien invasion issue - throwing the race card.

Studies show that assimilation rates for illegals is extremely poor on average. I've lived and worked in LA and Orange county for 18 years, and I know what I'm talking about from experience. Any native citizen who lives here, INCLUDING the hispanic citizens who were born here, would laugh in your face at your ignorance of the facts and your recitation of standard leftwing cant instead of the truth.

More insults? Are insults condones in this forum?

I hope you do realize that starting a post with insults has only one consequence: it stops the debate.

I agree that, in this case, cutting short the "debate" may be the best of all outcomes!

Tata!

 

[TruthSeeker]

Re: After DREAM Act defeated in Senate, Obama admin enacts it anyway by Executive Ord

More insults? Are insults condones in this forum?

I hope you do realize that starting a post with insults has only one consequence: it stops the debate.

I agree that, in this case, cutting short the "debate" may be the best of all outcomes!

Tata!

Stay in your own lane, Beaver Cleaver. I'm starting to feel sorry for you, with everybody beating you like an old rug.

 

[Openmind]

Re: After DREAM Act defeated in Senate, Obama admin enacts it anyway by Executive Ord

Stay in your own lane, Beaver Cleaver. I'm starting to feel sorry for you, with everybody beating you like an old rug.

Don't worry about me! I can take all the trash that is thrown at me.

I know that the most insulting and ridiculous the attacks, the more impotent the poster!

And I am anxious to find out what the limit of minimum civility is in this forum! It seems quite permissive in terms of insults and attacks.

That's okay with me, although I do prefer to resort to debate rather than uneducated attacks.

 

[clarkatticus]

Re: After DREAM Act defeated in Senate, Obama admin enacts it anyway by Executive Ord

What the law is trying to do is establish a path to make the child legal, which is not available right now. Your complaints about them being illegal when they had no input as to their own disposition even after they were adults is a baseless arguement. If a child shows promise in school, good citizenship and if some fight for our nation I deem it not only fair but prudent to allow them citizenship. Nearly all of these children speak both Spanish and English fluently as they are generally the intrepreters for their parents at the DMV or retail outlets. The very few that don't do not make up enough to justify your derision let alone your obvious hatred. Why do you fear these people?

 

[Openmind]

Re: After DREAM Act defeated in Senate, Obama admin enacts it anyway by Executive Ord

What the law is trying to do is establish a path to make the child legal, which is not available right now. Your complaints about them being illegal when they had no input as to their own disposition even after they were adults is a baseless arguement. If a child shows promise in school, good citizenship and if some fight for our nation I deem it not only fair but prudent to allow them citizenship. Nearly all of these children speak both Spanish and English fluently as they are generally the intrepreters for their parents at the DMV or retail outlets. The very few that don't do not make up enough to justify your derision let alone your obvious hatred. Why do you fear these people?

Clear, fair, and concise. Thank you.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Re: After DREAM Act defeated in Senate, Obama admin enacts it anyway by Executive Ord

Clear, fair, and concise. Thank you.

Conservatives seem to fear all who are not just like them, and fear everything they can't control and does not look and think just like them. one of us, one of us....

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Re: After DREAM Act defeated in Senate, Obama admin enacts it anyway by Executive Ord

No...I don't think anyone would expect a 10 year old to go denounce their parents as an illegal immigrant.



There are only two types of immigration..legal and illegal...if you didn't come here legally, you are breaking the law by being here. It doesn't ultimately matter what age you are..the law doesn't say, "illegal immigration is ok as long as you are 5 years old or less."



What is this based on?



Arguing that you did not realize you committed a crime is no justification for committing a crime. Either you are here legally or not.



Fair enough, but the child is still punished...not simply told "you are a child, therefore no punishment."



It does appear, but always good to have a good back and forth. Welcome to the site by the way.

if a kid is taken into a bank with there parents, who then try to rob the bank...should be charge the child with helping then to? Thats basically what we are doing, attacking kids for "breaking the law" when they where maybe 2 months old...Its not like we can expect them to turn 18 and say, damn well I guess I have to go back to some nation I have never been in before...since I was 2 months old.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Re: After DREAM Act defeated in Senate, Obama admin enacts it anyway by Executive Ord

More insults? Are insults condones in this forum?

I hope you do realize that starting a post with insults has only one consequence: it stops the debate.

I agree that, in this case, cutting short the "debate" may be the best of all outcomes!

Tata!

you must understand, that its best to stop the debate..when you know your going to get crushed..

You can't debate Rick, he lacks facts, and does not care about yours...

 

[Openmind]

Re: After DREAM Act defeated in Senate, Obama admin enacts it anyway by Executive Ord

you must understand, that its best to stop the debate..when you know your going to get crushed..

You can't debate Rick, he lacks facts, and does not care about yours...

Yes. I have no fear of bullies. But I hate to waste my time with stupidities.