Anti-Gay Concentration Camps

[Mare Tranquillity]

The above is a red herring. Hoover collected info on political enemies, and there was no FISA court to constrain him. There is no evidence that the Patriot Act has ever been misused - if you have any evidence, present it. Conservatives recognize that the fundamental duty of government is to protect its citizens, and in wartime it has to take a more active role in gathering intelligence, and always has. Washington stopped and searched suspected couriers without a warrant. Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus, and eavesdropped on telegraph traffic. Franklin Roosevelt monitored ALL electronic communication into and out of the country during WWII.

Red herring on not, Hoover misused his power and that's why I used him as an example. If you think that's not being done right now by others, then good for you. I don't think I've ever met two more government-trusting, self-identified conservatives than you and Sneaker.

 

[Rick]

Red herring on not, Hoover misused his power and that's why I used him as an example. If you think that's not being done right now by others, then good for you. I don't think I've ever met two more government-trusting, self-identified conservatives than you and Sneaker.

If your mistrust isn't backed up by facts, then it reduces to paranoia. I'm concerned with REAL threats (remember 9-11? hmmm? hmmm?) not imaginary ones.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

If your mistrust isn't backed up by facts, then it reduces to paranoia. I'm concerned with REAL threats (remember 9-11? hmmm? hmmm?) not imaginary ones.

If you believe the government story on 9/11 then you are even more trusting than I think you are.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I keep reading about the warrantless wire taps and the government using Facebook to gather info and I have to wonder. Are you old enough to remember J. Edgar Hoover and all the secret files he collected?

I believe you are the only conservative I've corresponded with who is okay with bigger and more intrusive government.

I am almost 55 years old. Is that "old enough" for you?

Just for the record, I am an INDEPENDENT. I think independently. I believe in FACTS. I don't believe in pigeonholing anybody, unless they profess their allegiance to a particular political or social philosophy.

I don't trust any political party that believes in controlling the citizens through social engineering, economic policies, ridiculous regulations and limitations, etc. I don't care what political party is in control. Republicrats or Democans. They are all the same to me.

This whole liberal/conservative thing is the work of immature adults. If more people had integrity and core values and core beliefs, this childish "labeling" of people would not be so prevalent.

If you leftists in here would read more of the things that I have posted, you would see that I don't blindly follow any particular political philosophy. I support what I believe is right, and I criticize what I believe is wrong.

Obama has done some things that I agree with, but he has done more things that I disagree with. I thought Bush did an overall good job his first four years in office, but I thought he had a disastrous second term.

This country suffers from a lack of honesty, and a lack of objectivity. I suffer from neither.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Why? What should we strive for? Mediocrity?

Typical leftist response. It's all or nothing. There is never any common ground. There is never any common sense.

FDR's "New Deal". LBJ's "Great Society". The "War On Poverty". The "War On Drugs". All abject FAILURES. All perfect examples of setting the bar too high and refusing to admit it.

 

[TruthSeeker]

If you believe the government story on 9/11 then you are even more trusting than I think you are.

I thought the topic was about "anti-gay concentration camps". Practice what you preach, 9/11 "truther".

 

[Centrehalf]

Nope, I'm not going to give you a pass on these comments.

I don't remember asking you to.

You are saying that because of the "potential" of abuse, these two parts of the Patriot Act need to be eliminated?

Yes.

Doesn't every law or mandate on the books present the "potential" for abuse?

No. The issues I brought up are dealt with out of the eye of the public. Normal laws and regulations may be abused but the public has the ability to know what abuse has taken place and then strive to change it. The FISA court and Presidential briefings are not necessarily open to the public, they are literally "private law".

Using your criteria, our society should be living in anarchy.

I'm not sure how you got there from my starting point. I'll need an explanation before I comment further.

I just don't see why ANYBODY in this forum believes they are "important" enough to have the federal government wire-tapping their phones, searching their home, and declaring them to be an "enemy combatant".

I never said that I was. I object to privilege. Private law is not Constitutional. I'm willing to make an exception for legitimate national security concerns, but cyber-dragnetting the American public in general and then requesting warrants from a court that is by it's very nature secret is wrong, for many reasons.

In the eyes of FISA and the POTUS, we're all nobodys. However, if anybody in here is involved in seditious or treasonous activities, or is a foreign terrorist or operative, then I hope that FISA is doing their job!

You don't need privilege to deal with any of these problems, with the possible exception of foreign operatives.

Why do some people, mostly on the left, strive for the unattainable ideas of "perfection" and "nirvana"?

I'm not sure, why don't you ask one? I posted nothing that asked for perfection or Nirvana. I did take exception to two things that in my opinion are blatant Constitutional violations.

 

[Rick]

If you believe the government story on 9/11 then you are even more trusting than I think you are.

Yeah, I'm with you. They think they can fool us, but they can't. Like last night, Karl Rove flew over my house in a black helicopter provided by Haliburton. They were sending down some kind of rays to scramble my mind - they KNOW I'm on to them. Fortrunately, there was aluminum foil in the house, so I could make a helmet to deflect the rays.

 

[Gipper]

Yeah, I'm with you. They think they can fool us, but they can't. Like last night, Karl Rove flew over my house in a black helicopter provided by Haliburton. They were sending down some kind of rays to scramble my mind - they KNOW I'm on to them. Fortrunately, there was aluminum foil in the house, so I could make a helmet to deflect the rays.

FUNNY...I like that...:

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Yeah, I'm with you. They think they can fool us, but they can't. Like last night, Karl Rove flew over my house in a black helicopter provided by Haliburton. They were sending down some kind of rays to scramble my mind - they KNOW I'm on to them. Fortrunately, there was aluminum foil in the house, so I could make a helmet to deflect the rays.

I knew that.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Personally, I have more faith in the firemen who were IN the Twin Towers than I do in the bureaurocrats who are the spokespeople for the government. Silly me, I should be like you fellas and suck up the government swill with a smile.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

I am almost 55 years old. Is that "old enough" for you?

Just for the record, I am an INDEPENDENT. I think independently. I believe in FACTS. I don't believe in pigeonholing anybody, unless they profess their allegiance to a particular political or social philosophy.

I don't trust any political party that believes in controlling the citizens through social engineering, economic policies, ridiculous regulations and limitations, etc. I don't care what political party is in control. Republicrats or Democans. They are all the same to me.

This whole liberal/conservative thing is the work of immature adults. If more people had integrity and core values and core beliefs, this childish "labeling" of people would not be so prevalent.

If you leftists in here would read more of the things that I have posted, you would see that I don't blindly follow any particular political philosophy. I support what I believe is right, and I criticize what I believe is wrong.

Obama has done some things that I agree with, but he has done more things that I disagree with. I thought Bush did an overall good job his first four years in office, but I thought he had a disastrous second term.

This country suffers from a lack of honesty, and a lack of objectivity. I suffer from neither.

Yes, 55 is old enough. I too, am an independent even though I get called a lot of other things by people on opposite ends of the spectrum. As a small business owner I am a fiscal conservative, BUT ACCORDING TO YOU I am a "leftist" because I strive for perfection in my business and personal life.

I don't have time to read all the posts you make so I have to assume a certain amount based on what I have read. If I've been wrong, then please forgive me and I'll forgive you for being wrong as well.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Yeah, I'm with you. They think they can fool us, but they can't. Like last night, Karl Rove flew over my house in a black helicopter provided by Haliburton. They were sending down some kind of rays to scramble my mind - they KNOW I'm on to them. Fortrunately, there was aluminum foil in the house, so I could make a helmet to deflect the rays.

Happened to you too, huh?

 

[TruthSeeker]

Yes, 55 is old enough. I too, am an independent even though I get called a lot of other things by people on opposite ends of the spectrum. As a small business owner I am a fiscal conservative, BUT ACCORDING TO YOU I am a "leftist" because I strive for perfection in my business and personal life.

I don't have time to read all the posts you make so I have to assume a certain amount based on what I have read. If I've been wrong, then please forgive me and I'll forgive you for being wrong as well.

Striving for the impossible or the unattainable (perfection) is just ONE of many other traits that I ascribe to leftists. Leftists believe that the government is the be all and end all, and government is the answer to everybody's problems.

I happen to believe differently. I believe in the Constitutional role of government.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Striving for the impossible or the unattainable (perfection) is just ONE of many other traits that I ascribe to leftists. Leftists believe that the government is the be all and end all, and government is the answer to everybody's problems.

I happen to believe differently. I believe in the Constitutional role of government.

NOT striving for perfectioin is a characteristic that I have always attributed to losers--whichever political stripe they may be.

I don't know if "leftists" believe the things you say they do, but I do know that Gipper wants the government to control women's bodies and prevent abortions. That seems like pretty intrusive big-government to me from someone who claims to be on the right hand end of the spectrum. How about you? Maybe some "rightists" want the government to be all and end all too.