CJCS: Problem with gays in the miltary? Leave

I am not out to misrepresent your point.. but even in the article you cited, two of the three commanders said that the law should be repealed eventually, just not right now..

I am fine with that, but ultimately it will be repealed.



I don't care who promotes a policy, I care about evidence that backs that policy up... so far I am more swayed by the evidence backing the position of ultimate repeal of DADT... be it now or down the line.

And again...

1. Many in the military do not want DADT repealed. They think openly gay men in the military will do damage.

2. This whole effort is promoted by the hard left. I do not wish to go along with ANYTHING they promote. Their track record stinks.

These two points are enough for me to side against repeal and I think most conservatives side with me.

Why any conservative would ignore those who oppose an issue promoted by the hard left, while knowing full well the hard left always sucks and wishes to destroy our nation, is hard for me to comprehend.
 
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Senate fails on repeal of 'Don't ask, don't tell' included in defense authorization bill
By Roxana Tiron - 12/09/10 04:06 PM ET

The Senate on Thursday dealt a severe blow to the repeal of the “Don’t ask, don’t tell” law, dimming the chances for the Clinton-era ban to be scrapped this year.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) failed to garner the necessary 60 votes for a procedural motion to start considering the 2011 defense authorization bill, which contains a provision to repeal the ban on openly gay people serving in the military. The final vote was 57-40.
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/132745-senate-fails-on-repeal-of-dont-ask-dont-tell

Well they did the the right thing, but the hard core left is not done. They will continue to fight for this and still hope to get a bill to BO ending DADT. They never stop in their efforts to destroy America.
 
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The Democratic Party is held hostage by its liberal base and desperately needs to repeal DADT to placate them before the new Congress convenes in January. How else could the Democrats ignore the conclusion of a Pentagon report that indicates that almost 40% of combat Marines (and 25% of combat Army) may leave the armed forces if Congress overturns the don’t ask, don’t tell policy — and then only seven days later — have all of its Senate Democrats (with the one exception of Senator Manchin of West Virginia) vote in support of overturning that policy.

In a recent interview on the Daily Show with Jon Stewart, former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Hugh Shelton expressed his concern that overturning DADT would “break the infantry elements” of our armed forces.

With their recent failure to get cloture of debate and an up-or-down vote on overturning DADT, and their announced intention to bring DADT back up for a vote as a standalone bill during the remaining days of the lame duck session, Senate Democrats not only ignored the implications of the Pentagon’s own survey data about combat troops leaving the service, they also blithely ignored the testimony of the chiefs of the Army, Air Force, and Marines that overturning DADT would threaten military effectiveness and the disruption of combat operations in a time of war.

Liberals seem to forget that the United States since 1973 has an all volunteer force. And while Congress can almost certainly prevent personnel from leaving the service immediately, it cannot coerce people to stay in the military beyond their service commitment and Congress cannot at present coerce people to join the military.

Whether or not the Democrats agree with the beliefs and attitudes of significant numbers of Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine and Special Forces – massive numbers of whom have signaled that they might leave military service if homosexuals are permitted to serve openly among them, the Democratic Party cannot legislatively reset the beliefs and attitudes of these servicemen with a vote.

Instead, these military personnel, mostly in combat arms, will simply vote with their feet and leave the service as they have indicated they will in the Pentagon survey. It’s a voluntary force: would the Democrats prefer to reimpose the draft?

And those groups from which the military generally draws large numbers of new recruits every year are almost certainly not going to provide as many new members of the military forces as they have in the past.

Consider the impact these departures could have on the Marines. As of October 31, 2010, there are 202,779 Marines. If up to 40% of this number decided to leave the Marine Corps in the near term as a result of the Congress overturning DADT, it would mean a loss of 81,111 Marines, many of whom are experienced combat veterans.

The Marine Corps only recruited 28,000 new Marines last year, and thus would be required to almost triple its annual recruitment goal just to stay at its current strength.

The comparable numbers for the Army are 569,186 as of October 31, 2010. If up to 25% left the service, it would mean a loss of 142,296 Army personnel, in a service that recruited 74,577 last year. The Army would have to double its recruitment goal to stay at current strength.

The Pentagon survey reveals that it’s not just the liberal Democratic Party that has strong beliefs and attitudes about the world. The problem for America is that the imposition of the Democratic Party’s beliefs and attitudes about the world points to an unremitting hollowing out of our military and an America dangerously undefended.

And if the hollowing out of the military begins to manifest itself in earnest after an overturning of DADT, the Democratic Party, and the country, may be faced with only one effective answer to maintain effective numbers of military personnel: the resumption of the military draft.

Coercion is always the answer of a political class that can’t admit it’s wrong.
http://bigpeace.com/pschweizer/2010/12/14/dadt-will-open-gays-in-the-military-bring-back-the-draft/

It is clear. DADT works and the military does not want it changed. This means nothing to their Dems in the desire to appease the radical left.
 
It is clear. DADT works and the military does not want it changed. This means nothing to their Dems in the desire to appease the radical left.

Yep. Just as obozocare is not ultimately about health, but rather the leftwing frenzy to control the details of peoples lives and move the constitution and democracy off the table, so the homosexualization of the military has nothing to do with war-fighting capability, but rather allowing the left to advance their social agenda.
 
Gay people scare me!!!! They shouldnt be allowed in the millitary if they are allowed to serve they might start having homosexual orgies in the shower.


Seriously guys this is the fvcking army not a highschool gym locker room I think they would be a little more disciplined than to start playing a bit of grab ass in the baracks. I dont know about you but the FIRST thing I think of when I wake up at 4 o'clock in the morning and go on a 5mi run to warm up for PT is how to cop a feel later on in the showers. Grow up your fear is baseless.
 
Gay people scare me!!!! They shouldnt be allowed in the millitary if they are allowed to serve they might start having homosexual orgies in the shower.


Seriously guys this is the fvcking army not a highschool gym locker room I think they would be a little more disciplined than to start playing a bit of grab ass in the baracks. I dont know about you but the FIRST thing I think of when I wake up at 4 o'clock in the morning and go on a 5mi run to warm up for PT is how to cop a feel later on in the showers. Grow up your fear is baseless.

You don't live with people 24/7 in high school - your analogy is assinine. You also aren't more likely to get killed in high school if unit cohesiveness and morale collapses.
 
As more news comes out about this issue, it is apparent that American military leadership are NOT for REPEALING DADT.

Marine commandant concluded DADT repeal may risk lives

ARLINGTON, Va. — The nation’s top Marine Corps officer said he could not endorse a change in the “don’t ask, don’t tell” law that could cause distractions or endanger the lives of Marines in combat.

Ultimately, the voices of forward-fighting combat Marines who worried about unit cohesion in the Pentagon’s survey swayed Marine Corps Commandant Gen. James Amos, leading him to recommend that Congress not repeal the law banning openly gay Americans from military service.

“Mistakes and inattention or distractions cost Marines lives,” he said on Tuesday, explaining how he came to his decision. “That’s the currency of this fight.

“I don’t want to lose any Marines to the distraction. I don’t want to have any Marines that I’m visiting at Bethesda [National Naval Medical Center, in Maryland] with no legs be the result of any type of distraction.”

By the end of the day, that statement had drawn sharp response from pro-repeal advocates, including a call for him to step down for being out of step with his own bosses.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2642976/posts
 
As more news comes out about this issue, it is apparent that American military leadership are NOT for REPEALING DADT.

Posting that the same General you already cited as against it again is not more evidence that "American military leadership" are against repeal.

The same response applies, top commanders are split on the issue.
 
Posting that the same General you already cited as against it again is not more evidence that "American military leadership" are against repeal.

The same response applies, top commanders are split on the issue.


You are right.

Just trying to make sure you are paying attention.
 
if it was up to you, Blacks would not have been unsegregated till like the 90's as well though.

also since when did civil rights have to wait till people are ready?



The military is not open society and people agree to forgo certain rights upon entering it. Has zero to do with "people being ready", this is a military matter.

To listen to you, segregation is still in effect.

And this has zero to do with civil rights. Nothing in the law says homosexuals cannot remain homosexuals.
 
The military is not open society and people agree to forgo certain rights upon entering it. Has zero to do with "people being ready", this is a military matter.

To listen to you, segregation is still in effect.

And this has zero to do with civil rights. Nothing in the law says homosexuals cannot remain homosexuals.

The military has nothing to do with civil rights, and in any case, white males are discriminated against in it every day due to yet another leftwing scheme - "affirmative action". Further, there is nothing in the constitution guaranteeing homosexuals any rights per se.
 
The repeal of DADT is another funny precedent-situation. If GLBTQs get a 'particular recognition' as a 'minority group' within the military, so essentially they can chat about their sexual scores with other enlisted without getting discharged, does this set the framework for 'legal recognition' in civil courts? Does this pave the way for gay marraige at least in part? If they gain special recognition as 'a viable human group separate from others' apart from just having an odd collection of non-hetero sexual fetish behaviors... does this get them a foothold elsewhere outside the behavioral consideration of their loose-grouping?

I think this could be part of the resistance to repealing DADT. Other reasons might be these:

1. Typically conservative volunteers who make up today's armed forces would be less likely to volunteer for service if their families were pressuring them not to do so because of fears [real or imagined: results the same] their sons or daughters would be hit on by those sharing their barracks/showers/sleeping facilities during a critical time of being "broken down and built up" in the mlitary's image.

2. That would mean a draft.

3. The problem of allowing those who are attracted sexually to same gendered people to use showering facilities where the objects of their sexual desire stand daily naked before them would be cause for concern about unit cohesion and distractions as one General recently [and correctly IMHO] cited.

4. A precedent would be set then for coed showers. After all, why is it we are supposed to believe that gays and lesbians can control their urges in these very close and intimate situations while heteros cannot? No, really, why?

5. While it is touted around constantly by gay mouthpieces like R. Maddow that "70% of surveyed military" [not counting the samples that weren't surveyed, or those who felt a duty to support fellow troopsmen despite their real and sometimes suppressed personal misgivings] "approve" of an openly gay military, it really does not account for the other 100% of the remaining 30% that don't. In a military, 100% troop cohesion is needed, not 70%. The only thing of "oppression" being heaped upon gays is simply their inability to advertise their sexual [private] behavior. If they have a gay partner, they may refer to them as their "friend". That seems to solve quite a bit of issues right there.

6. Like it or not, we are engaged with an enemy that is insidious, sneaky, cruel and unrelenting. Oh, and who happen to hold deep religious beliefs that they willingly would die for, blowing themselves up and taking American troops with them, that, among other preturbances, are VEHEMENTLY opposed to homosexuality in any shape or form. You go posting on the evening news that the US has an openly gay military and I GUARANTEE you that will equate to more troops dying on our fronts. You can set your watch by it and hang your hat on it.

7. Allowing gay mouthpieces like R. Maddow to continue to use her sexual-fetish-behavioral-denial Agenda to incite what amounts to nothing more or less than mutiny in erstwhile quiet gay troops during a time of war is AIDING AND ABETTING THE ENEMY and putting lives at risk. Remember: this is all so gays and lesbians may simply discuss their sexual escapades without reproach at the mess hall.

Don't ask, don't tell is not an oppressive rule. It is a STRATEGIC safety-valve for millions of lives for all the foregoing reasons and possibly many more I havent' thought of.

Gays aren't being asked to not serve in the military. Just like those people with other compulsive behaviors are not being asked not to serve. The military just doesn't want their compulsive behaviors to interfere with smooth function of the military. It just happens that their particular compulsive behavior surround sexuality and sexuality is one of the MAIN disrupters of any body of people intent on pragmatic goals....like the military..

Don't ask, don't tell. There's nothing there that says "don't serve".
 
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You don't live with people 24/7 in high school - your analogy is assinine. You also aren't more likely to get killed in high school if unit cohesiveness and morale collapses.

I didnt know they gave out Klan outfits in camo... There is nothing to support that statement. You are being assinine.

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