How many of our pols would sign this today?

I'm a Scottish Nationalist - screw the English, home rule and sod the rest that kindda thing..... Does that make me a Liberal? Sort of like Che Guevara in a kilt......:D

Your being a nationalist has nothing to do with it. You like socialism. As such, you are a liberal.

It is so sad how the left has destroyed Europe. Most the population are a bunch of bed wetting pu**ies. You expect the government to do everything for you.

Don't get me wrong, there are bunch of stinking commie libs in the States, but you Euros really got it bad. And with the Muslims multiplying like mice and most on welfare, your nations are sinking fast. But, we are not far behind thinks to DF liberalism.

The exception usually applies to those Euros who suffered under Soviet rule. Funny how that works... Many eastern Euros tend to be good conservatives looking for liberty and freedom from oppressive government tyranny. They come here and are surprised to find out the liberal vermin have infected us too. Libs are like the Bubonic Plague...
 
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Yes, yes, we're just a bunch of liberals, every time we disagree with your point of view.:p

I really can't disagree with your statement TLC.

You see, we disagree because we have vastly different political philosophies. You are a liberal. You want big government and no liberty.

I on the other hand, am completely opposite of you. I want liberty and VERY small government.

So of course we disagree. But, don't take it so hard buddy. We will work things out sooner rather than later and you will come to realize how ignorant your position is.

Just pay attention as I educate you on the errors of your liberal ways...:D:D:D
 
I really can't disagree with your statement TLC.

You see, we disagree because we have vastly different political philosophies. You are a liberal. You want big government and no liberty.

I on the other hand, am completely opposite of you. I want liberty and VERY small government.

So of course we disagree. But, don't take it so hard buddy. We will work things out sooner rather than later and you will come to realize how ignorant your position is.

Just pay attention as I educate you on the errors of your liberal ways...:D:D:D

Sure, Gip, you do that, right after you tell us what your definition of the term "liberal" is. Until you do, I'll continue to assume that it means just what I've said it means to you.

BTW, here is my political philosophy. I wrote this on my very first post on this forum, but can't find it now, so here it is again. I have updated it since then, added a fourth dimension, and clarified some points:

For future reference, my political philosophy is outlined here:

A fully formed philosophy must include four dimensions, just like the space/time universe described by Einstein. The usual one dimensional, left to right, or conservative to liberal model with the individual placing him/herself usually somewhere near the center is simply too simplistic to describe a political philosophy.

The right to left, or let’s call it the X axis of my model, goes from limited government to big government. I think it is safe to say that conservatives are supposed to support a limited government, lower taxes, and less intrusion into individual affairs. They would logically be on the right side of the X axis.

By that definition, a “social conservative” stance against gay marriage and abortion can not be considered conservative, as that idea advocates that the government, not the individual, make some basic life decisions.

None of that means that conservatives are being hypocritical, not when you add the Y and Z and T axes to the model. The issue of gay marriage is on the Y axis, authoritarian to libertarian, and has nothing to do with the right to left continuum. The authoritarian would have the government use its authority to dictate who might marry who, while the libertarian would leave that decision to the individual. The issue of abortion is on the same axis, as is the issue of legalizing drugs. None of them really have anything to do with a limited or less limited role for the federal government.

The Z axis of the model is from practical to ideologue. Take, for example, the issue of universal health coverage. This issue has been labeled as an extreme liberal position, but is it really?

The practical extreme of the axis would favor this syllogism:

The US is the only developed country without universal coverage,
We pay more than any other country in the world for health care, yet don’t have any better outcomes,
Therefore, we should consider universal coverage.

While an ideologue would be more likely to favor this one:
Universal care is socialistic
Socialism doesn’t work,
Therefore, universal care won’t work.

The fourth dimension, or T axis regards foreign policy. Here again, the so called “conservative” philosophy is contradictory: They want a smaller government, yet want that same government to lead the rest of the world. Still, there is no conflict, as foreign policy is on yet another dimension, that of PNAC to isolationist. The PNAC, as you may recall, wants to increase the military in order to impose a kind of pax Americana on the rest of the world by force of arms. The other extreme is self explanatory.

That explained, my philosophy is slightly past the middle at the smaller government side of the X axis, on the extreme libertarian edge of the Y axis, at the practical extreme of the Z axis, and near the center of the T axis.


Conservatives will still call me a liberal, of course, since I favor universal converge, don’t believe that Obama is out to destroy America, that drugs should be decriminalized, and the war in Iraq was a mistake.

Liberals might call me a conservative, since think that bailing out the auto industry and the banks was a costly error, and that the government must begin to live within its means, and soon.

Call me what you like, as I don’t subscribe to a one dimensional philosophy. I’m a practical libertarian conservative.

I did update this a little bit after the election, but it pretty much outlines my philosophy still. As for universal care, I think we can give up on that one, at least until the middle class can no longer afford coverage.
 
Well lets try this once again. Maybe it will take this time, but I doubt it.

Liberals are for big tyrannical government and little individual liberty. (Most libs are too ignorant to realize this...)

Conservatives are for small limited government and individual liberty.

Did it take?

So you see, libs have much in common with communists, nazis, Marxists, socialists, statists, progressives, Islamists, etc......................................
 
Well lets try this once again. Maybe it will take this time, but I doubt it.

Liberals are for big tyrannical government and little individual liberty. (Most libs are too ignorant to realize this...)

Conservatives are for small limited government and individual liberty.

Did it take?

So you see, libs have much in common with communists, nazis, Marxists, socialists, statists, progressives, Islamists, etc......................................

OK, so now we have a working definition: Liberals are people who are in favor of a big, tyrannical government, and against individual liberty. As such, they are logically in favor of the death penalty, of the war on drugs, and against gay marriage. They would favor the government, rather than the individual, making reproductive choices, and oppose the second amendment. Come to think of it, they wouldn't think much of the first ten amendments, in fact. They are, in fine, the opposite of libertarians, who believe that government was established to protect individual liberties and should be limited to that function.

Excellent. now, we know what we're talking about.

Now, let's see, about your list of other ideologies: Communists, check. they are in favor of big, tyrannical government and against individual liberties. Same for Nazis. Marxists? I suppose that's a synonym for Communists. Statists, are by definition, people who favor a big government. Progressive is another term that means different things to different people. Islamists? Now, that's a pejorative term for Muslims. Muslim is a religious belief, not a political one, so I have to wonder what liberals have in common with them.

Earlier, you added anarchist to the list. Have you changed your mind now?
 
WTH THC... You post this, but don't know what a liberal is? Come come now.

Liberals do not believe in the Constitution. Do you not know this? They have bastardized it, ignored it, and condemned it for decades. They think it is a "living document' Do you know what they mean by that? I would guess you do not. Let me inform you. They mean it can be whatever the libs want it to mean. This also means, we are not really a constitutional republic, but a tyranny run be elitist liberals.

This is a fine time to continue your education. You see most Conservatives believe the Constitution is to be revered and followed as the Founders intended it be followed. Any changes are subject to the amendment process.

Now do you see the difference between DF liberals and conservatives? Liberals want tyranny and conservatives want liberty.

Liberty or tyranny? Which will it be?


Lberals do not approve of the COnstitution, no doubt about that but this happens to reference the Declaration of Independence. Same concept though.
 
Islamists? Now, that's a pejorative term for Muslims. Muslim is a religious belief, not a political one, so I have to wonder what liberals have in common with them.

Oh please THC, your lack of knowledge is appalling but I will try to be patient.

Islam is not only a religion, it is also a political ideology. Please tell me you know this?
 
more nonsense from those with no facts

Again those damn blinders libs wear daily blinds them to reality.

Nearly everything W and BO have done is not constitutional. But, to a lib the constitution is whatever the lib wants it to be.

Here is another HUGE difference between libs and cons. Cons believe the Constitution should be adhere to as the Founders intended. Libs believe it should be whatever lib elites want it to be.

Big difference. No?
 
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Originally Posted by PLC1
Islamists? Now, that's a pejorative term for Muslims. Muslim is a religious belief, not a political one, so I have to wonder what liberals have in common with them.



Oh please THC, your lack of knowledge is appalling but I will try to be patient.

Islam is not only a religion, it is also a political ideology. Please tell me you know this?


Islam is a religious belief, muslim is a practitioner of islam

And Islam does demand that it's practitioners work toward changing the nations they live i to be islamic in their governments. You won't find that in other religious scripture.

If that term has become perjorative its only due to the connotation that those people have earned via their acts.
 
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Oh please THC, your lack of knowledge is appalling but I will try to be patient.

Islam is not only a religion, it is also a political ideology. Please tell me you know this?

Oh, your patience is noted.:cool:

Islam is a religion. It becomes a controlling force in people's lives when it becomes a state religion. The same is true of other religions, which is why we have a separation of church and state in this country.

Liberals, using your definition of people who would curtail individual liberty in favor of strong government, have tended to want to minimize that separation and pass laws that support their religious beliefs, but conservatives, people who favor individuals rather than an all powerful State making life decisions, support the First Amendment.
 
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