Is Christianity responsible for equality and liberty?

[dahermit]

...You would have done better had you contemplated the difference between aborigines and blood-thirsty european barbarians. I'm sure the aborigine would protest vigorously over such an unwarranted association...

"Blood-thirsty Catholic European barbarians", who invaded the new world and infected it with Catholicism.

 

[numinus]

Explain to me exactly what scientific effect a ritual has on any physical thing.

And why would you suppose a ritual is designed to have a physical effect????? You are not even competent to frame a sensible question on your own.

Maybe swearing on a Bible to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, in a court? How about the marriage ritual? How about the "Pledge of Allegiance"? What about the Baptism? Etc.? What about Christening a ship? Superstition is superstition.

So, is it your opinion that modern american culture is largely aboriginal?

Duh?

 

[numinus]

........ these would presumably be the same Saxon Barbarians that gave us Easter and Christmas?

You mean easter and christmas were saxon inventions?

 

[numinus]

What idiot needs a ritual to know that he is not going to live forever. Why would I need to be reminded via religious ritual that I will eventually die when I have a refrigerator with post-it-notes?

Because people living in a commercial, materialistic world are so engrossed with their commerical, materialistic lives to the point that they often forget to find meaning in their shallow lives.

The fact that one is standing in a church on ash wednesday only means he is in need of some reminding, wouldn't you say? Why begrudge him this?

 

[Fisher of Men]

Superstition is superstition.

Dahermit, looks like your superstition is rigid materialism. You can offer no scientific proof for your belief that only the physical world is real.

"Blood-thirsty Catholic European barbarians", who invaded the new world and infected it with Catholicism.

How about blood-thirsty atheist European barbarians? Their death count dwarfs that of Christians.

 

[Fisher of Men]

Here's a list men who advocated for human rights. Most were Christian:

THE MIDDLE AGES

Hugh of St. Victor (1096–1141)
Saint Thomas Aquinas (1225–1274)
Ibn Khaldun (1332–1406)
St. Bernardino of Siena (1380–1444)

THE RENAISSANCE

Tommaso de Cajetan (1469–1534)
Bartholomew de Las Casas (1474–1566)
Francisco Marroquín (1499–1563)
Girolamo Zanchi (1516–1590)
Luis de Molina (1535–1600)
Francisco Suarez (1548–1617)
Johannes Althusius (1557–1638)
William Perkins (1558–1602)
Hugo Grotius (1583–1645)
Juan de Lugo ((1583–1660)
John Winthrop (1588–1649)
Samuel Rutherford (1600–1661)
John Milton (1608–1674)
Sir Henry Vane (1613–1662)
John Locke (1632–1704)
Samuel von Pufendorf (1632–1694)
William Penn (1644–1718)
Joseph Addison (1672–1719)

EIGHTEENTH CENTURY

Adam Smith (1723–1790)
John Witherspoon (1723–1794)
Issac Backus (1724–1806)
Samuel Cooper (1725–1783)
Anne Robert Jacques Turgot (1727–1781)
Ferdinando Galiani (1728–1787)
Edmund Burke (1729–1797)
Anders Chydenius (1729–1803)
Charles Carroll of Carrollton (1737–1832)
Thomas Jefferson (1743–1826)
James Madison (1751–1836)
Fisher Ames (1758–1808)
Noah Webster (1758–1843)
William Wilberforce (1759–1833)
K. Wilhelm Freiherr von Humboldt (1767–1835)
Benjamin Constant (1767–1830)
Jean-Baptiste Say (1767–1832)
Lyman Beecher (1775–1863)

NINETEENTH CENTURY

Richard Whately (1787–1863)
James Fenimore Cooper (1789–1851)
Antonio Rosmini-Serbati (1797–1855)
Frédéric Bastiat (1801–1850)
John Henry Newman (1801–1890)
Jean-Baptiste-Henri Dominique Lacordaire (1802–1861)
Orestes Brownson (1803–1876)
Alexis de Tocqueville (1805–1859)
William Ewart Gladstone (1809–1898)
Charles le Comte de Montalembert (1810–1870)
John Bright (1811–1889)
Frederick Douglass (1818–1895)
Isaac Thomas Hecker (1819–1888)
Lord Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton (1834–1902)
Abraham Kuyper (1837–1920)
Booker T. Washington (1856–1915)

TWENTIETH CENTURY

J. Gresham Machen (1881–1936)
Jacques Maritain (1882–1973)
J. Howard Pew (1882–1971)
Rose Wilder Lane (1886–1968)
Emil Brunner (1889–1966)
Walter Eucken (1891–1950)
Michael Polanyi (1891–1976)
John Ronald Reuel Tolkien (1892–1973)
Christopher Dawson (1898–1970)
C.S. Lewis (1898–1963)
Leonard E. Read (1898–1983)
Friedrich August von Hayek (1899–1992)
Edward A. Keller, C.S.C. (1903–1989)
John Courtney Murray, S.J. (1904–1967)
Dietrich Bonhoeffer (1906–1945)
Frank S. Meyer (1909–1972)
Erik Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn (1909–1999)
Richard M. Weaver (1910–1963)
Ronald Reagan (1911–2004)
Carl F. H. Henry (1913–2003)
Edmund A. Opitz (1914–2006)
Russell Kirk (1918–1994)
Rafael Termes (1918–2005)
Karol Wojtyla (1920–2005)
Lord Ralph Harris of Highcross (1924–2006)
William F. Buckley (1925–2008)
Wilhelm Roepke (1899-1966)
Alexander Solzhenitsyn (1918-2008)

link: http://www.acton.org/about/a_history_of_liberty.php

 

[The Scotsman]

You mean easter and christmas were saxon inventions?

.... Yeah okay granted the Saxons called Christmas something else, "guile" (pronounced Yule) wasn't it? Most European "pagan's" new year started on 25th December which was why the date was transplanted for the Christian festival following inter alia Saxon "conversion" to a form of early Christianity. But you're right it wasn't just a Saxon thing.

 

[The Scotsman]

The fact that one is standing in a church on ash wednesday only means he is in need of some reminding, wouldn't you say? Why begrudge him this?

quite right! What is the point of pretending to live in a tolerant country if there are those that would begrudge people who have the gift of faith their right to practise that faith?

 

[numinus]

"Blood-thirsty Catholic European barbarians", who invaded the new world and infected it with Catholicism.

Quite right! Although, the spanish monarch who financed the expedition to the new world was hardly literate, flea-infested, slept with his pigs in one roof, and did not even have the common sense to bathe twice a year and wipe his ass after defecating.

How a complete barbarian can pretend to grasp the philosophical intricacies of the christian faith embedded in catholicism, is, quite frankly, beyond me.

So, the most likely conclusion is that they were european barbarians pretending to be catholics.

 

[PLC1]

Here's a list men who advocated for human rights. Most were Christian:

THE MIDDLE AGES

Hugh of St. Victor (1096–1141)
Saint Thomas Aquinas (1225–1274)
Ibn Khaldun (1332–1406)
St. Bernardino of Siena (1380–1444)

THE RENAISSANCE

Tommaso de Cajetan (1469–1534)
Bartholomew de Las Casas (1474–1566)
Francisco Marroquín (1499–1563)
Girolamo Zanchi (1516–1590)
Luis de Molina (1535–1600)
Francisco Suarez (1548–1617)
Johannes Althusius (1557–1638)
William Perkins (1558–1602)
Hugo Grotius (1583–1645)
Juan de Lugo ((1583–1660)
John Winthrop (1588–1649)
Samuel Rutherford (1600–1661)
John Milton (1608–1674)
Sir Henry Vane (1613–1662)
John Locke (1632–1704)
Samuel von Pufendorf (1632–1694)
William Penn (1644–1718)
Joseph Addison (1672–1719)

EIGHTEENTH CENTURY

Adam Smith (1723–1790)
John Witherspoon (1723–1794)
Issac Backus (1724–1806)
Samuel Cooper (1725–1783)
Anne Robert Jacques Turgot (1727–1781)
Ferdinando Galiani (1728–1787)
Edmund Burke (1729–1797)
Anders Chydenius (1729–1803)
Charles Carroll of Carrollton (1737–1832)
Thomas Jefferson (1743–1826)
James Madison (1751–1836)
Fisher Ames (1758–1808)
Noah Webster (1758–1843)
William Wilberforce (1759–1833)
K. Wilhelm Freiherr von Humboldt (1767–1835)
Benjamin Constant (1767–1830)
Jean-Baptiste Say (1767–1832)
Lyman Beecher (1775–1863)

NINETEENTH CENTURY

Richard Whately (1787–1863)
James Fenimore Cooper (1789–1851)
Antonio Rosmini-Serbati (1797–1855)
Frédéric Bastiat (1801–1850)
John Henry Newman (1801–1890)
Jean-Baptiste-Henri Dominique Lacordaire (1802–1861)
Orestes Brownson (1803–1876)
Alexis de Tocqueville (1805–1859)
William Ewart Gladstone (1809–1898)
Charles le Comte de Montalembert (1810–1870)
John Bright (1811–1889)
Frederick Douglass (1818–1895)
Isaac Thomas Hecker (1819–1888)
Lord Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton (1834–1902)
Abraham Kuyper (1837–1920)
Booker T. Washington (1856–1915)

TWENTIETH CENTURY

J. Gresham Machen (1881–1936)
Jacques Maritain (1882–1973)
J. Howard Pew (1882–1971)
Rose Wilder Lane (1886–1968)
Emil Brunner (1889–1966)
Walter Eucken (1891–1950)
Michael Polanyi (1891–1976)
John Ronald Reuel Tolkien (1892–1973)
Christopher Dawson (1898–1970)
C.S. Lewis (1898–1963)
Leonard E. Read (1898–1983)
Friedrich August von Hayek (1899–1992)
Edward A. Keller, C.S.C. (1903–1989)
John Courtney Murray, S.J. (1904–1967)
Dietrich Bonhoeffer (1906–1945)
Frank S. Meyer (1909–1972)
Erik Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn (1909–1999)
Richard M. Weaver (1910–1963)
Ronald Reagan (1911–2004)
Carl F. H. Henry (1913–2003)
Edmund A. Opitz (1914–2006)
Russell Kirk (1918–1994)
Rafael Termes (1918–2005)
Karol Wojtyla (1920–2005)
Lord Ralph Harris of Highcross (1924–2006)
William F. Buckley (1925–2008)
Wilhelm Roepke (1899-1966)
Alexander Solzhenitsyn (1918-2008)

link: http://www.acton.org/about/a_history_of_liberty.php

You left out the Dominican, Tomas de Torqumada.

 

[dahermit]

Dahermit, looks like your superstition is rigid materialism. You can offer no scientific proof for your belief that only the physical world is real.

You can offer no scientific proof for your belief that only the physical world is not real

How about blood-thirsty atheist European barbarians? Their death count dwarfs that of Christians.

Millions killed by Christan European barbarians, millions killed by atheist European barbarians. It seems that Christianity in not then responsible for equality and liberty, that is if you cannot show that Christianity has reduced the killing significantly.

Catholicism (a Christan religion), as eliminated entire civilizations: Carribe Indians of the Caribbean, Aztecs, Incas, etc. What has Christianity done for their equality and liberty?

 

[dahermit]

Quite right! Although, the spanish monarch who financed the expedition to the new world was hardly literate, flea-infested, slept with his pigs in one roof, and did not even have the common sense to bathe twice a year and wipe his ass after defecating.

He sounds like a typical good catholic.

How a complete barbarian can pretend to grasp the philosophical intricacies of the christian faith embedded in catholicism, is, quite frankly, beyond me.

How a complete barbarian can pretend that there any philosophical intricacies of the Christian faith embedded in catholicism, is, quite frankly, beyond me.

So, the most likely conclusion is that they were european barbarians pretending to be catholics.

The catholic religion was invented by those European barbarians it is no wonder why Catholicism is such a barbaric religion.

 

[PLC1]

You can offer no scientific proof for your belief that only the physical world is not real

Millions killed by Christan European barbarians, millions killed by atheist European barbarians. It seems that Christianity in not then responsible for equality and liberty, that is if you cannot show that Christianity has reduced the killing significantly.

Catholicism (a Christan religion), as eliminated entire civilizations: Carribe Indians of the Caribbean, Aztecs, Incas, etc. What has Christianity done for their equality and liberty?

Was that the work of Christianity, or the work of a combination of church and state?

 

[Gipper]

You can offer no scientific proof for your belief that only the physical world is not real

Millions killed by Christan European barbarians, millions killed by atheist European barbarians. It seems that Christianity in not then responsible for equality and liberty, that is if you cannot show that Christianity has reduced the killing significantly.

Catholicism (a Christan religion), as eliminated entire civilizations: Carribe Indians of the Caribbean, Aztecs, Incas, etc. What has Christianity done for their equality and liberty?

Liberals condemn the Catholic Church for murderous acts committed centuries ago. Yet, those same liberals commend themselves for THEIR murderous acts committed against the innocent unborn today.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH the hypocrisy!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dahermit]

quite right! What is the point of pretending to live in a tolerant country if there are those that would begrudge people who have the gift of faith their right to practise that faith?

I do not give a **** what they do as long as it does not affect me; like the choice between eating liver or macaroni and cheese on Friday in the army because there may be some Catholics in the ranks. It is the organization of the Catholic Church I take issue with. Especially when they ignore priest buggering alter boys.