Is McCain a war monger, or is he just going crazy in old age?

sun tzu

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Personnally, I don't think he was ever qualified to be the mayor of Forks, Washington, much less president of America. The man never recovered from Nam and his torturing, not that I hold it against him, just that it is the best reason I can find for his complete lack of understanding on what is going on in Iraq and how inefficient our progress there is has been. The Green Zone is twice as dangerous as the worst slums of New York or Chicago.

Obama is right; we need to pull out NOW! No more Americans should die in this war. But more will die in Bushes remaining months, and even more if McCain is elected, all for basically squat.
 
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Pandora

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Personnally, I don't think he was ever qualified to be the mayor of Forks, Washington, much less president of America. The man never recovered from Nam and his torturing, not that I hold it against him, just that it is the best reason I can find for his complete lack of understanding on what is going on in Iraq and how inefficient our progress there is has been. The Green Zone is twice as dangerous as the worst slums of New York or Chicago.

Obama is right; we need to pull out NOW! No more Americans should die in this war. But more will die in Bushes remaining months, and even more if McCain is elected, all for basically squat.

yeah!

we need Ohhhbama......... he smells like a summers breeze. That alone makes him qualified :)
 

Popeye

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Personnally, I don't think he was ever qualified to be the mayor of Forks, Washington, much less president of America. The man never recovered from Nam and his torturing, not that I hold it against him, just that it is the best reason I can find for his complete lack of understanding on what is going on in Iraq and how inefficient our progress there is has been. The Green Zone is twice as dangerous as the worst slums of New York or Chicago.

Obama is right; we need to pull out NOW! No more Americans should die in this war. But more will die in Bushes remaining months, and even more if McCain is elected, all for basically squat.

I agree with you about McCain, he's an old man. Too old to be POTUS, but what does Forks have to do with it?
 

The Scotsman

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Obama is right; we need to pull out NOW! No more Americans should die in this war.

This pretty much encapsulates what's wrong with American Foreign Policy and its ability to be taken seriously by the rest of the world. Unless it directly impacts on Isreal, US Foreign policy seems to be a function of the popularist mood du jour; put simply formulated by advisors that are focused on a purley domestic audience with an extremely myopic view of the world around them. Shoot first think later... no comprehension of (or indeed understanding of) the wider implications of their actions and the impact that action (or inaction) will have on international relations or geo-political security!

Its Vietnam all other again really don't you think? You cannot see a military venture through without tearing yourselves apart because you lost the stomach for the fight that you started in the first place! Not only did you get buttf*cked in Vietnem if you carry on with this insane whinning you'll get buttf*cked in the mid-east as well. How will defense partner take the US seriously in future if you constantly pull out when the tide of public oppinion changes, General Võ Nguyên Giáp was so right and his words are so true today - all you need is a bit of patience and a bit of fight and the Americans will walk away and leave you alone because they have'nt got the stomach for a fight!

Obama is just another manufactured politican telling you what you want to hear so that he can have his turn in the white house and play God! Unless you start choosing people with real visions and real objectives instead of fawning over vacuous salesmen that can memorise words and that look good on television then one of the truely great Countrys' will just become a moribund irrelevence.

Jeez... when will you stop relying on Lawyers to run your country and start getting people with real world experience.......please!!
 

Libsmasher

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This pretty much encapsulates what's wrong with American Foreign Policy and its ability to be taken seriously by the rest of the world.

Screw the rest of the world - you have no credibility with us.

Unless it directly impacts on Isreal, US Foreign policy seems to be a function of the popularist mood du jour;

Total nonsense - eg, we steadfastly took on the soviets for 40 years while euroweenies did next to nothing.

put simply formulated by advisors that are focused on a purley domestic audience with an extremely myopic view of the world around them. Shoot first think later... no comprehension of (or indeed understanding of) the wider implications of their actions and the impact that action (or inaction) will have on international relations or geo-political security!

Absolute nonsense, and the euroweenie policy is don't ever shoot -no matter what happens.

Its Vietnam all other again really don't you think?

That's preposterous - the two conflicts have almost nothing in common.

You cannot see a military venture through without tearing yourselves apart because you lost the stomach for the fight that you started in the first place!

At least we have the stomach for a fight - unlike the UK troops holed up in the Basra airport.

Not only did you get buttf*cked in Vietnem if you carry on with this insane whinning you'll get buttf*cked in the mid-east as well. How will defense partner take the US seriously in future if you constantly pull out when the tide of public oppinion changes, General Võ Nguyên Giáp was so right and his words are so true today - all you need is a bit of patience and a bit of fight and the Americans will walk away and leave you alone because they have'nt got the stomach for a fight!

Unlike that commie rat's nest, we have elections every four years. The patience of the north vietnamese was actually that of their dictators - not the families of the million or so VC and NVA dispatched by the US.
 

Truth-Bringer

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Personnally, I don't think he was ever qualified to be the mayor of Forks, Washington, much less president of America. The man never recovered from Nam and his torturing, not that I hold it against him, just that it is the best reason I can find for his complete lack of understanding on what is going on in Iraq and how inefficient our progress there is has been. The Green Zone is twice as dangerous as the worst slums of New York or Chicago.

Obama is right; we need to pull out NOW! No more Americans should die in this war. But more will die in Bushes remaining months, and even more if McCain is elected, all for basically squat.

Yes, McCain is a Neocon warmonger. Things in Iraq will get even worse if the old coot is elected.
 

The Scotsman

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Hi masher...well....errrm...... :rolleyes: you've really missed the point.

Look....Masher I'll try and make this easy for you....Terrorists strike the twin towers in New York the reaction is "who the f*ck done that to us" then all of a sudden everyone hears this name Alkayda something ...bunch of AY'rabs "who d'a f*ck they man...les nuke em" You cannot because it is a confederation of dis-interested radical organisations spread around the world that don't like anyone in particular but managed somehow to put one over the USA - so your Government is on the backfoot it has to bounce on someones head or they'll loose some percentage points in the polls and public oppinion is crying out for action. So.... who's available to get the rap....Ah Iraq! "lets f*ck them man they're and easy target man....no sweat man!

Et voila...WMD, Saddam training nasty folks, Al something-or-an-other...terrorists and a bit of UN sactions busting...... GREAT, all of a sudden it amounts to a license to invade and placate the US public who are feeling a might peeved because they cannot aim their collective anger and feelings of total and utter impotence at anything or anybody that caused the loss and deaths in New York!....but hey guess what.....there's some freakin OIL at the end of all this.

So......5 years later on. Well Masher...here we all are..... a bit naffed off because it didn't take 5 minutes to get the job done and you're still fighting the F*CKIN AY'RABS...with your allies ....and your man Obama is sayin hey.....vote for me and I'll bring the troops back...let the Ay'rabs sort themselves out and all will be hunky dory in the world...I'll be THE PRES and you'll be just like so happy and all that.

So if you follow the advice of the great Obama you've achieved what exactly.... I'll tell you Masher you've achieved absolutely freakin nothing.....nothing MASHER...all you've done is got a whole bunch of good men killed MASHER..... a whole lot of GOOD AMERICAN SOLDIERS KILLED for what Masher....tell me MASHER what the F*CK have these GOOD men died for MASHER!!!!!

So follow the advice of the great Obama and piss off into the distance leaving your dead lying in some rat infested ****e hole in Iraq ....excellent advice don't you think MASHER!!!!!!
 

sun tzu

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Look....Masher I'll try and make this easy for you....Terrorists strike the twin towers in New York the reaction is "who the f*ck done that to us" then all of a sudden everyone hears this name Alkayda something ...bunch of AY'rabs "who d'a f*ck they man...les nuke em" You cannot because it is a confederation of dis-interested radical organisations spread around the world that don't like anyone in particular but managed somehow to put one over the USA - so your Government is on the backfoot it has to bounce on someones head or they'll loose some percentage points in the polls and public opinion is crying out for action. So.... who's available to get the rap....Ah Iraq! "lets f*ck them man they're and easy target man....no sweat man!

That isn't what happened. We DID attack the people who destroyed the twin towers; in Afghanistan. The Taliban had been hiding Bin Laden and Al Qaeda and we blew them to hell.

But Bush Really wanted to invade Iraq. We're not really sure why, because he keeps lieng to us. My guess is he had an Adolsence moment, wanted to show up his dad, who never made it to Baghdad. But he brought the rest of the Nation along, and we are now losing thousands of men to GWB's whim, and followed by his ancient protege/clone.
 

sun tzu

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This pretty much encapsulates what's wrong with American Foreign Policy and its ability to be taken seriously by the rest of the world. Unless it directly impacts on Isreal, US Foreign policy seems to be a function of the popularist mood du jour; put simply formulated by advisors that are focused on a purley domestic audience with an extremely myopic view of the world around them. Shoot first think later... no comprehension of (or indeed understanding of) the wider implications of their actions and the impact that action (or inaction) will have on international relations or geo-political security!


America is a democracy. when there is a war that matters and is important, America goes to war with an unbeatable fury. In wars like Vietnam and Iraq, we tell the government what we want, and there job is to do it for us. That's what we pay them for. But Bush is trying to change the rules with his PATRIOT act, and by completely ignoring 70% of Americans.

Truly Shocking
 

Andy

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But Bush Really wanted to invade Iraq. We're not really sure why, because he keeps lieng to us. My guess is he had an Adolsence moment, wanted to show up his dad, who never made it to Baghdad. But he brought the rest of the Nation along, and we are now losing thousands of men to GWB's whim, and followed by his ancient protege/clone.

You are so full of it. Um... did you miss the late 90s all together? Saddam in Iraq, had been screwing with is for more than 10 years. He needed to be removed, he was trying to get nuclear weapons (indisputable fact), he refused to disarm and kicked out the UN weapons inspectors (indisputable fact), he had WMD, and anyone who denies that has their head stuck in the sand, he had supported terrorist actions, and either had, or was trying to get, a working relationship with Al Qaeda.

Bill Clinton in the late 90s said we need to go over there and remove him, that he would present a terrorist threat, or support terrorism world wide in the near future.

And you really honestly do not know why Bush wanted to go? You have your head shoved too far up your politics to see then.

We needed to go, we needed to remove him, and we need to stay till the job is done.
 

Andy

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America is a democracy. when there is a war that matters and is important, America goes to war with an unbeatable fury. In wars like Vietnam and Iraq, we tell the government what we want, and there job is to do it for us. That's what we pay them for. But Bush is trying to change the rules with his PATRIOT act, and by completely ignoring 70% of Americans.

Wrong. America is not a democracy, and if it is, we're doomed. America is a Representative Republic. We vote in people who will do the job to the best of their abilities. Not robots who get marching orders from telephone polls that are slanted to what the news editor wants to portray.

No, Bush is not obligated to follow every self-absorbed political activist who claims everyone, or 70% of whoever, wants this or that. Bush is obligated to do what he believes is best for the entire nation, not just liberals. He is obligated to do what is best for security, which is his primary duty as President.

Not follow a bunch of know-nothings, that think they are so much smarter about international affairs from their computers, playing games and posting on political forums, while they sit in their Mommy and Daddy paid for university dorm rooms.

US Troops Terrorize Iraqis
We're doing a good thing, and I support it.
 

Libsmasher

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No, you don't have the stomach to fight - which is why you refuse to enlist in the military. You like war just fine, as long as you're not the one that has to do the fighting and the dying.

The people who are in the war are VOLUNTEERS. What would you say if I said the US needs more wheat, "go out and grow it"? :) What would you say if I said china has too much of our debt, "pay them off"? :D
 
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Libsmasher

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Hi masher...well....errrm...... :rolleyes: you've really missed the point.

Look....Masher I'll try and make this easy for you....

As opposed to STUPID your first go-round? Great!

Terrorists strike the twin towers in New York the reaction is "who the f*ck done that to us" then all of a sudden everyone hears this name Alkayda something ...bunch of AY'rabs "who d'a f*ck they man...les nuke em" You cannot because it is a confederation of dis-interested radical organisations spread around the world that don't like anyone in particular but managed somehow to put one over the USA - so your Government is on the backfoot it has to bounce on someones head or they'll loose some percentage points in the polls and public oppinion is crying out for action. So.... who's available to get the rap....Ah Iraq! "lets f*ck them man they're and easy target man....no sweat man!

You don't know what you're talking about. There was a debate within al qaeda about who to strike first - the "near enemy" (quasi-democratic middle east regimes, arab socialist regimes, secular arab regimes) or the "far enemy" - the U.S. Osama ben Laden argued, successfully, for the "far enemy". They didn't just happen to pick us. 9-11 was a carefully planned operation against a carefully chosen enemy. As a result the US attacked them where they were at the time - Afghanistan.

Et voila...WMD, Saddam training nasty folks, Al something-or-an-other...terrorists and a bit of UN sactions busting...... GREAT, all of a sudden it amounts to a license to invade and placate the US public who are feeling a might peeved because they cannot aim their collective anger and feelings of total and utter impotence at anything or anybody that caused the loss and deaths in New York!....but hey guess what.....there's some freakin OIL at the end of all this.

More appeaser cant. The US attacked Iraq because intelligence indicated they had nukes. This was the same regime that had attacked THREE neighboring countries, including the first IRBM attacks since WWII. That the Baathist Iraqi regime, which had already been responsible for MILLIONS of deaths would add this new dimension was untenable.

So......5 years later on. Well Masher...here we all are..... a bit naffed off because it didn't take 5 minutes to get the job done and you're still fighting the F*CKIN AY'RABS...with your allies ....and your man Obama is sayin hey.....vote for me and I'll bring the troops back...let the Ay'rabs sort themselves out and all will be hunky dory in the world...I'll be THE PRES and you'll be just like so happy and all that.

Ooooooo.........the war didn't end on your preferred schedule?? :( The UK fought the Malaysian Emergency for 12 years - and won. The "allies" contribution has been small in the case of the UK, and trivial in the case of other countries. The idea that the arabs will "sort themselves out" is transcendentally stupid - if the US cuts and runs, what will happen is the emergence of an iranian superstate, which will eventually take over saudi arabia and finlandize the rest of the big middle east states. If there are any 12 year olds around you - have them explain the implications of that, I'm tired of typing.

So if you follow the advice of the great Obama you've achieved what exactly.... I'll tell you Masher you've achieved absolutely freakin nothing.....nothing MASHER...all you've done is got a whole bunch of good men killed MASHER..... a whole lot of GOOD AMERICAN SOLDIERS KILLED for what Masher....tell me MASHER what the F*CK have these GOOD men died for MASHER!!!!!

The usual appeaser wholesale avoidance of reality - al qaeda infrastructure has been destroyed all over the world. The Taliban and Saddam overturned, and democracies set up in in iraq and afghanistan. What's left is a handful of bandits in both countries who manage to blow up some women and children. Euroweenies biitch when we've had to deal with dictatorships, then you STILL biitch when we liberate countries and set up democracies. You just biitch whatever happens, and from the sidelines.
 
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