ISLAM is EVIL !

[9sublime]

I KNOW MUSLIMS WHO DON'T KILL PEOPLE, just like you know people who wear clothes of two different fibres. Not everyone follows everything literally, its just those to take it to an extreme, hence the name extremists.

 

[Sgt Schultz]

You said "advocate killing those who don't believe". I would say that this says that "those who dont believe" wont have everlasting life after they are already dead. Christians believing that I am going to burn in hell doesnt have an impact on me. Dont have any Christians advocating that they should hasten my journey to hell, only that this is where I am going to end up after I die. "Fight those who do not believe in Allah" doesnt require such mental gymnastics for a believer to interpret that to mean that he should be "killing those who don't believe". MARK

Believe me, there are so called christians in this country who love to do nothing more than hasten the death of unbelievers. Just take a look around some of the extremist forums to see what they say. What seems to stop them is that they are afraid of being caught and punished. So far it's just words but if the tipping point comes they will come out in force.

 

[palerider]

Believe me, there are so called christians in this country who love to do nothing more than hasten the death of unbelievers. Just take a look around some of the extremist forums to see what they say. What seems to stop them is that they are afraid of being caught and punished. So far it's just words but if the tipping point comes they will come out in force.

Tell you what. I will compile a list of killings perpetrated by muslims in the name of thier religion in the past year, decade, century, or the past thousand years if you like and you compile a list of killings perpetrated by christians in the same time and lets see who does the most killing. Even if you take the inquisition into account, the numbers are dwarfed by the number muslims have killed in the name of their demon god.

 

[Sgt Schultz]

Tell you what. I will compile a list of killings perpetrated by muslims in the name of thier religion in the past year, decade, century, or the past thousand years if you like and you compile a list of killings perpetrated by christians in the same time and lets see who does the most killing. Even if you take the inquisition into account, the numbers are dwarfed by the number muslims have killed in the name of their demon god.

This isn't a game because muslims might have killed more than christians. That doesn't excuses anyone. I don't condemn people on their religious beliefs, I only blame those individuals who commit crimes in the name of their religion regardless of what it is. The vast majority of people, be it christian or muslim are living peaceful lives and I won't condemn them based upon the actions of the extremists.

 

[vyo476]

Tell you what. I will compile a list of killings perpetrated by muslims in the name of thier religion in the past year, decade, century, or the past thousand years if you like and you compile a list of killings perpetrated by christians in the same time and lets see who does the most killing. Even if you take the inquisition into account, the numbers are dwarfed by the number muslims have killed in the name of their demon god.

A madman will find any justification for what he does. Islam, as a religious faith (which requires some heavy devotion to get into), is just another justification. The adherents to radical Islam who murder and maim in the name of the religion are no different than Charlie Manson; the comparatively poor economic conditions in the Middle East today are creating more of these crazies because normal, everyday life is just too terrible to do otherwise. Throw in a disaffected rich kid with fifty brothers and sisters who never got much lovin' from his parents for funding and poof - and you have al Qaeda.

Remember, many passages in the Qu'ran have to deal with "fighting persecution." For any number of reasons these guys feel like they're being persecuted - could be that they think Western culture is poisoning their own; could be that they want all Western influences out of the Middle East; could be that they're just angry as **** at the world and we're the biggest target they could start throwing **** at. The point is that they're out of their ****ing minds.

Those are radical Islamic terrorists. They do not represent a majority of Muslims. Most Muslims don't kill anyone. The faith of the extremists is a completely different brand of Islam from what they practice - although the extremists still call it by the same name as the moderates, it is different. Think of the conflict between the Catholic Church and Martin Luther - at the time, there was no difference in nomenclature between Luther's church and the Catholic Church. Eventually, a conflict was forced and today we see that there are Protestants and Catholics and they're very, very different.

That kind of conflict will never be forced in this situation, though, because moderate Muslims are peaceful people. The terrorists are already apart from them. The terrorists are not their responsibility. They need not condemn them. What would the point be? There'd be about as much point in having the common, moderate Muslim go outside his door and loudly denounce terrorism as there would in having pale rider go outside his door and loudly denounce pedophilia. The only difference is that the streets are ruled by the extremists, who will execute any moderate Muslims for doing something like that, whereas pale rider has freedom of speech because he lives here in America.

As far as I can see, pale rider, you're condemning moderate Muslims because they don't have the freedom to speak their minds. This does not come from an inherently corrupt religious belief, as the moderate practices Islam too; it comes from a small group of extremists who have corrupted how the majority of Muslims view their religion. The few use force and intimidation to keep the weak in subjugation and use Islam as an excuse - not as a reason.

 

[jb_1430]

A madman will find any justification for what he does. Islam, as a religious faith (which requires some heavy devotion to get into), is just another justification. The adherents to radical Islam who murder and maim in the name of the religion are no different than Charlie Manson;....
Remember, many passages in the Qu'ran have to deal with "fighting persecution."

???? Charles manson wasnt following any religious doctrine.

[9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

This isnt a response to persecution. It is convert and pay the tax, OR DIE! Unless your a christian or jew in which case you can accept your state of subjection or die. They are not crazy, they are good obedient muslims who follow ALL of Gods commandments instead of picking and choosing. MARK

 

[palerider]

the comparatively poor economic conditions in the Middle East today are creating more of these crazies because normal, everyday life is just too terrible to do otherwise.

That is not a valid argument at all. There are plenty of other people, even in muslim areas, that live under the same poverty, and political conditions and yet, only the muslims go about wageing jihad. This is because the muslims are called to jihad and they are taught this from a very early age.

As far as I can see, pale rider, you're condemning moderate Muslims because they don't have the freedom to speak their minds. This does not come from an inherently corrupt religious belief, as the moderate practices Islam too; it comes from a small group of extremists who have corrupted how the majority of Muslims view their religion. The few use force and intimidation to keep the weak in subjugation and use Islam as an excuse - not as a reason.

It sounds like you are suggesting that a few percent of muslims are keeping the other 97% in line by terror. If that is the case, then I find that I might be able to have even less respect for muslims than I already do. You seem to be saying that muslims come in two varieties, heroic madmen or abject cowards.

 

[ArmChair General]

Tell you what. I will compile a list of killings perpetrated by muslims in the name of thier religion in the past year, decade, century, or the past thousand years if you like and you compile a list of killings perpetrated by christians in the same time and lets see who does the most killing. Even if you take the inquisition into account, the numbers are dwarfed by the number muslims have killed in the name of their demon god.

You know, I would so take that bet. Christians, in just the last century have been way more bloody than Muslims.

Just look at the history of Lebanon for one.

And then Africa....and don't forget Latin America...if there was a way to actually score this, you would so lose.

 

[ArmChair General]

That is not a valid argument at all. There are plenty of other people, even in muslim areas, that live under the same poverty, and political conditions and yet, only the muslims go about wageing jihad. This is because the muslims are called to jihad and they are taught this from a very early age.

Its not a valid argument. For instance, the people who flew the jets into the Trade Center were rich, afluent and well off. They were not poor or tortured as children. The common denominator between then was their religion.

It sounds like you are suggesting that a few percent of muslims are keeping the other 97% in line by terror. If that is the case, then I find that I might be able to have even less respect for muslims than I already do. You seem to be saying that muslims come in two varieties, heroic madmen or abject cowards.

This is however a valid argument. You are looking at Muslims in a vacum PaleRider. Almost every Muslim country is a brutal dictatorship. And most of those get support, both militarily and monetarily from the United States. Ayman al-Zawahiri, who is said to be Bin Ladens right hand man and the biggest inflence on his ideology, came from the brutally oppressive regime of Egypt. He spent years in prison being tortured, and when he finally got out, he was more violent than ever.

The Extremists are at war with the Muslim Dictatorships, which in turn makes them crack down even more on the people, which inevitably creates more discontent and more future terrorists.

 

[vyo476]

???? Charles manson wasnt following any religious doctrine.

Exactly. Crazy people latch onto whatever they can to justify themselves.

They are not crazy, they are good obedient muslims who follow ALL of Gods commandments instead of picking and choosing. MARK

So are the only good Christians the ones who adhere to all those lovely passages about stoning people to death for committing adultery?

 

[vyo476]

That is not a valid argument at all. There are plenty of other people, even in muslim areas, that live under the same poverty, and political conditions and yet, only the muslims go about wageing jihad. This is because the muslims are called to jihad and they are taught this from a very early age.

Or its because they're the only ones who are organized enough to do any real damage.

It sounds like you are suggesting that a few percent of muslims are keeping the other 97% in line by terror. If that is the case, then I find that I might be able to have even less respect for muslims than I already do. You seem to be saying that muslims come in two varieties, heroic madmen or abject cowards.

I'd put the divide at something more like 15-20% keeping 80-85% in line using terror tactics. The thing that you're just not comprehending is that moderate Muslims are peaceful - they don't want more war and bloodshed. If they keep their heads low now the extremists don't bother them; if they speak out against the terrorists then the terrorists come and blow them up. They want peace in their own home first and peace abroad second; they can have the first by keeping their mouthes shut and they can aid the effort in favor of the second by opening their mouths, but they can't have both.

Here's your situation: You're standing on a street corner. You see a man who you know to be a member of the Mafia. Do you start yelling at him about how he's a terrible, awful person and that, despite the fact that you don't really know him and don't consider yourself to be a part of his stratification, you don't support the things he does, simply because the people he hurt might blame you by some vague association? Do you do that with full knowledge that by doing so, you're painting a giant red bulls-eye on you and your family? Do you do that with full knowledge that dictatorial government currently in power doesn't give a damn about what that man and his cronies do to you and yours? Or do you just turn and walk away and not say anything?

 

[jb_1430]

Exactly. Crazy people latch onto whatever they can to justify themselves.
So are the only good Christians the ones who adhere to all those lovely passages about stoning people to death for committing adultery?

I am not aware of any such Christians. MARK

 

[9sublime]

But surely if good Muslims are ones that follow their Qu'ran to every detail inculding stonings, a good Christian should also follow his bible literally and stone people.

But you regard a good Christian as one who doesn't stone people, why do you dislike Muslims who don't partake in stoning.

 

[vyo476]

I am not aware of any such Christians. MARK

So what are you saying? There aren't any good Christians? Or that good Christians ignore the more violent sections of the Bible? Perhaps there's some middle ground that I'm missing?

 

[jb_1430]

But surely if good Muslims are ones that follow their Qu'ran to every detail inculding stonings, a good Christian should also follow his bible literally and stone people.

But you regard a good Christian as one who doesn't stone people, why do you dislike Muslims who don't partake in stoning.

Cant imagine what makes you think I dislike Muslims? MARK