Obama wants to legitimize the 20 million illegal aliens - do you agree?

[vyo476]

Whats your problem? What hell hole country do you reside in? Do I detect an Islamic attitude?

I don't know about that, but I detect (yet more) bigotry.

"Blame Islam!" is quickly becoming the go-to argument of people who don't want to deal with foreign criticism. And to think it used to something respectable like "Blame France!"

 

[numinus]

Playing the illegal alien race card in lieu of actually debating the issues is cowardly.

And when exactly did I do this, hmm? As I recall, citizenship in the us isn't about race, unlike in germany or japan. It is about living in the country.

 

[numinus]

Too gutless/stupid to debate that issue? OK!

Your argument got exactly the amount of intellectual exertion from me. If you wish a scapegoat for the 'drain' in the economy, you need look no further than americans, themselves.

Uh, what has that got to do with what I was talking about? Forgot to take your attention defict pills?

You were the one who mentioned drain in the educational system, were you not?

What the devil are you mumbling about? Are you smoking grass??

I said that sentence emphatically. I was trying to understand what a nation of actors and rock stars need an education for, much less complain about the drain it causes.

Oh, the jamestown settlers didn't have passports! That's it??? That's all you can come up with in a debate about illegal aliens in 2008?? I think I preferred your "coward" mode to your incoherent rambling mode.

And how are they different, except the fact that they occured in remote parts of history, hmmm?

And your point would be .......... what??? Like saying a bank robber can't suceed without a getaway car.

And I'm the one who's smoking grass, he says?!

American businesses require cheap labor. They benefit from the inflow of illegals. Indirectly, you benefit also, since you need not pay more for your basic necessities.

Capice?

 

[Libsmasher]

Hospitality is more or less a service-industry offshoot.



Service-industry.



Could very well. If domestic agriculture becomes less profitable than foreign agriculture, domestic agriculture could easily go out of business.



Service-industry.



Uh...yes. Food processing is much easier to perform overseas (cheaper labor and fewer health codes/restrictions), and is more feasible now with better refrigeration technologies.



Congratulations, you have one pertinent example.

Uh, the point is your suggestion that if illegal aliens don't do the jobs they do, those jobs will go overseas, is bogus.

Irregardless of the reality, the argument was that white men wouldn't do the same work black men performed on the plantations of the South. The reality is and always will be that people will do what they have to in order to survive, which makes the "work (certain group) won't do) argument a universal fallacy. A universal fallacy that you brought into the conversation, by the way.

That's right - the only fallacy you brought in was the idea that any illegal alien jobs would be exported if they were kicked out. Since you understand the "jobs americans won't do" mantra is a fallacy, please explain that to your fellow illegal alien advocates who use it all the time.

 

[Libsmasher]

And when exactly did I do this, hmm? As I recall, citizenship in the us isn't about race, unlike in germany or japan. It is about living in the country.

You said wouldn't legalizing illegal aliens solve all the problems.
I pointed out the stupidity of that assertion.
You said I need to get over "your prejudice".

Coming back to you now?

Try to remember what you say, OK?

 

[numinus]

You said wouldn't legalizing illegal aliens solve all the problems.
I pointed out the stupidity of that assertion.
You said I need to get over "your prejudice".

Coming back to you now?

Try to remember what you say, OK?

prej·u·dice

–noun 1. an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.

So, what has that got to do with race, eh?

And when you liken illegal immigrants to bank robbers, are you not, in fact, giving an 'unfavorable opinion without KNOWLEDGE, THOUGHT OR REASON'?

Or do you need me to teach you english as well?

 

[Libsmasher]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Libsmasher
Too gutless/stupid to debate that issue? OK!

Your argument got exactly the amount of intellectual exertion from me. If you wish a scapegoat for the 'drain' in the economy, you need look no further than americans, themselves.

STILL too cowardly to respond! I get it, I get it - you're a coward, no more proof needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Libsmasher
Oh, the jamestown settlers didn't have passports! That's it??? That's all you can come up with in a debate about illegal aliens in 2008?? I think I preferred your "coward" mode to your incoherent rambling mode.

And how are they different, except the fact that they occured in remote parts of history, hmmm?

Oh gosh, leemee hit the high points:

- indians had no concept of property
- the north american continent wasn't a state
- indians didn't have a health care system to exploit
- indians didn't have a political party trying to import whites for political motivations.
- indians weren't importing whites for cheap labor

C'mon - the comparison is silly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Libsmasher
And your point would be .......... what??? Like saying a bank robber can't suceed without a getaway car.

And I'm the one who's smoking grass, he says?!

You said the solution to illegals was making them legal - I made an equally
idiotic statement following your illogic.

American businesses require cheap labor. They benefit from the inflow of illegals. Indirectly, you benefit also, since you need not pay more for your basic necessities.

Specious. I DON'T benefit - I pay higher medical insurance premiums and higher taxes because of the illegals. Comprendo?

 

[Libsmasher]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Libsmasher
You said wouldn't legalizing illegal aliens solve all the problems.
I pointed out the stupidity of that assertion.
You said I need to get over "your prejudice".

Coming back to you now?

Try to remember what you say, OK?

prej·u·dice

–noun 1. an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.

So, what has that got to do with race, eh?

And when you liken illegal immigrants to bank robbers, are you not, in fact, giving an 'unfavorable opinion without KNOWLEDGE, THOUGHT OR REASON'?

Actually, I was ridiculing your idiotic statement that legalizing illegals would solve problems, but it flew over your head.

 

[Andy]

prej·u·dice

–noun 1. an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.

So, what has that got to do with race, eh?

And when you liken illegal immigrants to bank robbers, are you not, in fact, giving an 'unfavorable opinion without KNOWLEDGE, THOUGHT OR REASON'?

Or do you need me to teach you english as well?

You really are a coward. Typical Num logic comprehension problem here. That is exactly the logical leap I expect from you Numinus.

The problem you have, that no one else has issues with, is that Lib was not likening the people to bank robbers... For you to think that, proves you can't argue in a real debate.

Lib was making the point that if the solution to people breaking the law, is to legalize their actions, then logically we could/should apply that to bank robbers. In fact, any number of crimes should be legalized since they are happening illegally.

Lib was also pointing out that motive does not make an action right. Just because immigrants come here illegally to get a better life, does not make their actions less illegal. Just as a bank robber wants a better life, doesn't make robbing the bank less illegal.

I don't expect you to figure this out either. Critical thinking was a obviously a failed subject for some here.

 

[jb_1430]

I was talking about goods and services for domestic consumption. The us is already incapable of competing internationally in most industries.

Actually we export more than every country in the world with the exception of Germany and China. Which piss ant country was it you are from?

 

[jb_1430]

I don't know about that, but I detect (yet more) bigotry.

"Blame Islam!" is quickly becoming the go-to argument of people who don't want to deal with foreign criticism. And to think it used to something respectable like "Blame France!"

I asked a question bigot. You just love to hate America more than he does.

 

[Andy]

Uh, the point is your suggestion that if illegal aliens don't do the jobs they do, those jobs will go overseas, is bogus.

Yes and no... The point he is making is this:

Illegals do jobs for a lower pay rate. By not having illegals do the job, the pay rate would be higher. This is, on a minor level, true.

Further, he is making the point that the cost of labor is too high in the US, resulting in jobs being moved out of the country. This is, on a large scale, true.

Example: GM's Chevy Aveo is made in South Korea (that would be Capitalist S.K., not Communist N.K. whose GDP is a mere fraction of S.K.)

It is a bit debatable as to whether the jobs that illegals have, are the type of jobs that go out of the country. I don't see illegals working in major corporations that have external competition. I see them working in tiny companies, or backyard business. Not really in steel mills or GM plants.

PROBLEM:
Even if this theory is true, it would be irrelevant. By making illegals, legal, the cost of labor would increase because of taxes and federal regulations that would then apply to newly legal labor.

The only way to prevent this from happening is to leave things the way they are, with illegals working for low wages while sapping social services. Because either deporting them, or legalizing them, would result in increased cost of labor.

SOLUTION
The real answer to the problem of discussion here is, undo the government controls and regulations that cause labor to be too expensive to be competitive. No one will buy that, but that's the only answer.

 

[Andy]

Actually we export more than every country in the world with the exception of Germany and China. Which piss ant country was it you are from?

Knowing Numinus, he'll respond with "Americans are fat!" or something equally ignorant.

 

[vyo476]

I asked a question bigot. You just love to hate America more than he does.

You asked as stupid question. The country of origin thing was fine, except for your assumption that he comes from a "hell hole." The thing about Islam was a bigoted statement. Deal with it.

I don't hate America. I happen to like it here, myself. I don't even hate anyone, really. Strongly, even vehemently, dislike, yes, but not hate. I don't even hate you. Go figure.

 

[vyo476]

Uh, the point is your suggestion that if illegal aliens don't do the jobs they do, those jobs will go overseas, is bogus.

Right, because cheap labor isn't one of the main incentives for jobs to leave this country.

Here's how it works. The illegals who are here work for little money. They're gone, those jobs have to go to American citizens, who want more money. In many cases it'd be more profitable to move those jobs (the ones that aren't service-based as we've already gone over) to other countries where the labor is still cheap (cheaper, most likely).