One out of 47 million

[Dr.Who]

is there a trick question in there? or do you realy not know how dumb that question sounds?

Of course it is not a trick question. You just don't want to answer it. So I will.

A person with health care does not need health insurance because the purpose of health insurance is to provide payment for health care.

Anyone who cannot afford health insurance is eligible for free health care and anyone who can afford health insurance buys it because it is better than taking a chance on becoming poor. It really insures you wealth - get treated either way.

 

[Dr.Who]

my freind just found out he may need his appendix out, he has no insurace as lost his job and just got a new one but no money for insurance and is not covered under there insurance yet....I dont think he will be taking his own out himself. So he just has to wait for it to burst and force a ER trip in a Emergancy and guess who is going to pay for it, at higher costs.....tax payers...that or he just dies I guess....

Is this an attempt to show us one person who does not have access to care?

Is this problem with his appendix acute? Since he is waiting it does not sound like it.

Does he have more than $2000 in the whole wide world?

And don't go setting up false dichotomies between him having insurance and his dying. There are plenty of options. As we shall see when you answer the questions we ask.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Is this an attempt to show us one person who does not have access to care?

Is this problem with his appendix acute? Since he is waiting it does not sound like it.

Does he have more than $2000 in the whole wide world?

And don't go setting up false dichotomies between him having insurance and his dying. There are plenty of options. As we shall see when you answer the questions we ask.

enough that had he been it would be out right now, right now he is scrablming trying to find a way to pay for it. it has not burst, but very well could soon, they wanted to take it out before such a event.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Is this an attempt to show us one person who does not have access to care?

Is this problem with his appendix acute? Since he is waiting it does not sound like it.

Does he have more than $2000 in the whole wide world?

And don't go setting up false dichotomies between him having insurance and his dying. There are plenty of options. As we shall see when you answer the questions we ask.

guess what , people younger people with no jobs for months tend not just have 2000 laying around. what planet you live in?

and no he has no Insurance. welcome to the real world, people dont alll have insurance, money and still get very sick.

 

[top gun]

Do you want to offer people health care or insurance against losing their homes? We need to keep separate issues separate. If you want to offer the latter then there are insurance policies for that too. Should gov pay for those?

They are one in the same and you know that.

The current system causes the losing of their homes problem.

No one knows when they'll be struck down by a serious disease or injury. And mortgage insurance only keeps one current for a specified amount of time after you lose your job. It does not safeguard your homes equity or any of your other assets from bankruptcy.

The system is simply not good as it is. And I'm saying that as someone with what most would probably says is outstanding health insurance because my company pays more of it the longer you are with the company. For me that's 12 years.

But I'm smart enough to realize and honest enough to admit that this is only GREAT COVERAGE until I would get seriously ill or injured with an ongoing condition. Within a few months I'd be let go and my coverage would cease. Then the bills pile up and you go bankrupt. Then after you're destitute and if you're still alive after the "have/have not gap" you might be able to get Medicare and get treatment again.

I'd much rather have steady affordable coverage with or without an employer that can't be denied for preexisting conditions and without caps or crazy high deductibles & co-pays.

The whole insurance game right now goes like this. You and your employer pay us a lot of money. We'll cover you for all of the routine stuff and some serious conditions too up to a point... as long as you stay at your job.

There's really nothing very great about that at all if you look at the big picture and the exposer you really have with the current system.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

also just a note, 2000 bucks? where did you get that number?

http://www.healthcarefees.com/inpatientSurgery/appendectomy.php

find me the 2000 cost in that link...maybe you ment just have 10000+ laying around?

 

[Dr.Who]

enough that had he been it would be out right now, right now he is scrablming trying to find a way to pay for it. it has not burst, but very well could soon, they wanted to take it out before such a event.

A little hard to read that but I assume you are saying that he does not have $2000.

I came up with that figure because in Ill (which sets it's rules basedon what the Fed tells it to do) $2000 is what you are allowed to have and still qualify for free insurance.

In Ill. (and probably most other states) he qualifies to go get any needed medical treatment through public aid. I suppose in another state the asset qualification might be plus or minus a little bit.

 

[Dr.Who]

guess what , people younger people with no jobs for months tend not just have 2000 laying around. what planet you live in?

and no he has no Insurance. welcome to the real world, people dont alll have insurance, money and still get very sick.

All the more likely that he qualifies for public aid.

 

[Dr.Who]

They are one in the same and you know that.

No you are wrong. Asking the taxpayer to protect your life and health is very different than asking the taxpayer to protect your bank account from financial ruin because you could not or often would not buy insurance.

The current system causes the losing of their homes problem.

Yes it does. Still does not mean that all the taxpayers of this country should start footing the bill for those who lose their assets because they would not or even could not afford insurance. I would add that if they could not afford insurance then they did not own that much to be losing.

No one knows when they'll be struck down by a serious disease or injury. And mortgage insurance only keeps one current for a specified amount of time after you lose your job. It does not safeguard your homes equity or any of your other assets from bankruptcy.

Then buy disability insurance or take the risk the same as we all do.

But I'm smart enough to realize and honest enough to admit that this is only GREAT COVERAGE until I would get seriously ill or injured with an ongoing condition. Within a few months I'd be let go

I don't suppose your employer should keep you on the payroll if you are not working. I hope you are doing as every financial planner on the planet advises and saving some of your money. But the debate here is about health insurance and not about your job.

and my coverage would cease.

Only if you did not buy COBRA. That is why you saved your money or bought disability insurance or depend on your spouses income.

Then the bills pile up and you go bankrupt. Then after you're destitute and if you're still alive after the "have/have not gap" you might be able to get Medicare and get treatment again.

When your assets are gone you would indeed be bankrupt. You would not need to depend on medicare since you would qualify for public aid.

I'd much rather have steady affordable coverage with or without an employer that can't be denied for preexisting conditions and without caps or crazy high deductibles & co-pays.

Then tell congress to make it easier for you to buy your own insurance and shop around for what you want.

The whole insurance game right now goes like this. You and your employer pay us a lot of money. We'll cover you for all of the routine stuff and some serious conditions too up to a point... as long as you stay at your job.

No it doesn't. You don't have to stay at your job you have to pay the premiums.

As far as the routine stuff, that should not be a part of insurance at all. But when congress made it better to get insurance through your employer they were in the position of wanting to add every bell and whistle they could.

 

[Dr.Who]

54 posts and three days and so far no one has given a single example with details of any person who does not have access to health care.

 

[TruthAboveAll]

54 posts and three days and so far no one has given a single example with details of any person who does not have access to health care.

I think it interesting that you've given an opportunity for anyone to cite a valid example of just one person not having access to health care, and there is only the usual diatribes on the evils of our current system and hysterical what-if. Throw in a few totally off-base comparisons, and voila! You have the crux of the debate today.

Interestingly, there is the guy with the appendix. I saw nothing from POS that he had gone straight forward to the surgeon, the hospital, etc. and even attempted to negotiate financial terms. I'm sure he'd rather wait until something, anything, comes along to relieve him of the financial responsibility of taking care of his health issues.

This is what this is all about. The arguments are too often involving "somebody I know" or "the other guy". And the shame is that there ARE problems in our system that need fixing. There ARE people who need help with either receiving quality care or just basic help in finding it and identifying options. There ARE the ones who have fallen on misfortune and need some restructuring help. There ARE those who have no access to the insurance that could benefit them, because it is loaded with crap they don't need. And so on... But all these things will get lost in the great debate over what the government should be doing to fix the system.

So, I'll now return the control over this thread back to the Doctor, and await with him the one in 47 million - or should we say 30 million now per the more recent number being bandied about? Inquiring minds want to know - where DID that other 17 million vanish to?

 

[TruthAboveAll]

...


Only if you did not buy COBRA. That is why you saved your money or bought disability insurance or depend on your spouses income....

I just wanted to comment on this portion of the post. My husband and I are in limbo at the moment, without insurance. It's a long story, but I'll keep it brief albeit a bit sketchy.

He lost his job, won an arbitration, and part of the settlement was to provide insurance coverage continuation. He was supposed to be eligible for a retirees package earlier this year. The union is supposed to have access to that for him. He was told no go. So while it was to be sorted out, the union advised going ahead with COBRA.

Our coverage under the retirees plan would run us about $700/month. Not a huge sum, but healthy chunk of change on our lowered monthly income these days. Okay, do what we must.

So we fill out the COBRA paperwork, they take their sweet time with it, then we get hit with a bill over $5,000 just for three months. An interim? We think not! We know for a fact that there is one Republican proposal that would have allowed us to keep our insurance, paying what the company had been paying, but current law prohibits, replacing that option with COBRA. So here is a prime example of Federal law run amok, and creating one of the problems that they now ostensibly seek to solve by taking over. Right.

In the meantime, we will continue to try to minimize our health care needs, but we will do what we need to also. And we do NOT expect our fellow citizens to pick up the tab and pay for our unfortunate circumstances.

I did want to point out though, don't throw COBRA out as a necessarily viable option. Even with pre-existing conditions, we can buy private insurance for much more affordable rates.

 

[Dr.Who]

I just wanted to comment on this portion of the post. My husband and I are in limbo at the moment, without insurance. It's a long story, but I'll keep it brief albeit a bit sketchy.

He lost his job, won an arbitration, and part of the settlement was to provide insurance coverage continuation. He was supposed to be eligible for a retirees package earlier this year. The union is supposed to have access to that for him. He was told no go. So while it was to be sorted out, the union advised going ahead with COBRA.

Our coverage under the retirees plan would run us about $700/month. Not a huge sum, but healthy chunk of change on our lowered monthly income these days. Okay, do what we must.

So we fill out the COBRA paperwork, they take their sweet time with it, then we get hit with a bill over $5,000 just for three months. An interim? We think not! We know for a fact that there is one Republican proposal that would have allowed us to keep our insurance, paying what the company had been paying, but current law prohibits, replacing that option with COBRA. So here is a prime example of Federal law run amok, and creating one of the problems that they now ostensibly seek to solve by taking over. Right.

In the meantime, we will continue to try to minimize our health care needs, but we will do what we need to also. And we do NOT expect our fellow citizens to pick up the tab and pay for our unfortunate circumstances.

I did want to point out though, don't throw COBRA out as a necessarily viable option. Even with pre-existing conditions, we can buy private insurance for much more affordable rates.

I am sorry that COBRA is not all you hoped it would be. What can I say it was created by congress.

I would point out that even if it is very expensive it allows you to be continually covered so that you will never find yourself in the position of having a pre-existing condition.

Do you wish that all along you could have bought your own private insurance not through your employer and had had a higher salary as compensation instead of the employer offered plan?

 

[Dr.Who]

Three months have gone by now and not a single example of any US citizen who does not have access to health care has been posted!

 

[chestnut]

well gosh its its only 36 million Americans without coverage ( and got knows how many who cant afford the coverage they have, or dont have enough coverage) then who needs reform?

And yet, after all the debates.. The current Senate legislation Harry Reid is pusing will still leave 24million un-insured.
So why turn the system upside down and screw eveything up if it does ot solve the problem of the un-insured.