Rules For Radicals

[pocketfullofshells]

Kind of like the writings in the constitution or any other writing from another generation. You have to figure out what that generation meant when using the word or term.

The word Radical today means something different to every one. Even something as simple as a rainbows or the symbols of them mean at least 3 different things today.

What did the word radical mean during the time the book was written and more importantly what did the word mean to Saul since he wrote the book. He wrote it for people like himself, so what ever radical meant to him, he felt he was radical himself. And his book was to aid people who thought like him.

I thought you where not suppose to interpret the Constitution....

 

[Pandora]

Exactly.

How often do we debate about a subject, any subject, without first agreeing to a definition of terms? Such a discussion is generally meaningless, as one party is talking apples, the other oranges.

It's the classic faulty syllogism:

No car in town is faster than Joe's Corvette,
My Yugo is faster than no car in town,
Therefore, my Yugo is faster than Joe's Corvette.

We could debate if he is or was right or wrong for his ideas

We could debate if its right or wrong for obama to have been lecturing on those rules as though it was a good thing

We could debate if more than the Saul types of the world use those rules

 

[Pandora]

I looked it up; it was published in 1971. Ah yes, I was in my 20's during that era. The era of the SDS, the Weathermen, Black Panther party, I was in Berkeley and saw crowds throwing bricks at the cops. Bonfires in the streets. Smashing the windows of the Bank of America. The air was filled with tear gas. Radicals these days are wussies.

I would have hid in a bush, that sounds so scary

 

[Pandora]

When I lived in Ann Arbor, Bill Ayres and Diana Oughton lived on the same block. They taught in an experimental school that failed. Diana went to NY and blew herself up and Bill eventually went to Chicago to be an albatross to Obama.

Off topic but please explain what you mean when you say Bill eventually went to Chicago to be an albatross to obama.

 

[Pandora]

I thought you where not suppose to interpret the Constitution....

HUH

Where did you get that idea?

We do it all the time then argue if we are right or wrong

and who said you cant bump up a thread?

 

[Lagboltz]

I would have hid in a bush, that sounds so scary

At times it was very scary. I worked at the Lawrence Radiation Laboratories and lived near UC Berkeley campus, so I had to put up with the street crowds. I once got hit in the leg with a teargas canister from a sort of grenade launcher. This happened when I was going into a grocery store. My wife and I were continually dodging teargas. The radicals wore thick gloves and gas masks and threw the canisters back at the police.

Off topic but please explain what you mean when you say Bill eventually went to Chicago to be an albatross to obama.

That was totally tongue in cheek. I should have put a smiley after that. Sarah Palin often refered to Obama "palling around with terrorists" -- Bill Ayres, a historic radical figure, when they both lived in the same neighborhood in Chicago. Bill is quite tame today.

 

[Pandora]

At times it was very scary. I worked at the Lawrence Radiation Laboratories and lived near UC Berkeley campus, so I had to put up with the street crowds. I once got hit in the leg with a teargas canister from a sort of grenade launcher. This happened when I was going into a grocery store. My wife and I were continually dodging teargas. The radicals wore thick gloves and gas masks and threw the canisters back at the police.



That was totally tongue in cheek. I should have put a smiley after that. Sarah Palin often refered to Obama "palling around with terrorists" -- Bill Ayres, a historic radical figure, when they both lived in the same neighborhood in Chicago. Bill is quite tame today.

I would not want to be in those kinds of protests. I Like the tea party type. You get your cute sign and dress in patriotic colors, bring the kids and fried chicken and pick your trash up when you are done. Here in the peoples republic of Eugene we had anti war protesters, they were mean, loud violent and rude. I am all for their right to protest but I would have not wanted to be part of that. It seemed scary and they were mostly stoned hippies

I personally like Sarah Palin but she was exaggerating when she said they were palling around. He launched his campaign at Ayers house, they were on a board together. They did know each other, how well? I don't know.

 

[PLC1]

There are actually quite a few radicals of the '60s who are today teachers, bankers, accountants, and such. They've lost the peace symbols and long hair, quit smoking pot for the most part, and either "sold out" or gone straight, according to your point of view.

The protests were pretty spectacular at times, but really not so dangerous, except, perhaps at Kent State.

The protestors were more focused than the tea partiers of today, too. They were adamantly anti war, anti segregation, pro "social justice", but mainly just anti war and anti draft. The young men of that era had few choices: go to Vietnam, go to Canada, go to jail, or keep a deferment going . The "radicals" mainly chose any course but Vietnam.

Tea partiers are a diverse lot, with the commonality that they aren't so satisfied with the government.

But, who is satisfied with the government these days? I heard that Congress approval rating was down to 6%. I'm surprised it is that high.

 

[Openmind]

There are actually quite a few radicals of the '60s who are today teachers, bankers, accountants, and such. They've lost the peace symbols and long hair, quit smoking pot for the most part, and either "sold out" or gone straight, according to your point of view.

The protests were pretty spectacular at times, but really not so dangerous, except, perhaps at Kent State.

The protestors were more focused than the tea partiers of today, too. They were adamantly anti war, anti segregation, pro "social justice", but mainly just anti war and anti draft. The young men of that era had few choices: go to Vietnam, go to Canada, go to jail, or keep a deferment going . The "radicals" mainly chose any course but Vietnam.

Tea partiers are a diverse lot, with the commonality that they aren't so satisfied with the government.


But, who is satisfied with the government these days? I heard that Congress approval rating was down to 6%. I'm surprised it is that high.

You are correct: Many of those protesters are today respected Universisty professors and professionals. But I don't think most of them have "gone straight" in the sense that Pandora would consider "going straight!" They have just matured and channeled their social conscience into more effective (and less aggressive) ways.

As I mentionned before, a whole university was founded (in Santa Cruz, CA, only about 50 miles from Berkeley), on the shoulders of those protesters. . .an university where 65 year old professors come to class with Binkerstocks and shorts, and teach many new generations of Americans about diversity, about economics, about social concerns, about art, and biology. The big difference is that they provide BOTH the "conservative" and the "liberal" sides of all these subjects.

And, before the bashing begins against such a "liberal" university, founded by those protesters, here is some of it's "pedigree" from Wikepedia:

UC Santa Cruz is currently ranked #72 in the list of Best National Universities in the United States by the US News & World Reports,[53] and 56th best by The Washington Monthly.[54] According to a 2005 report by SCI-BYTES magazine, UCSC ranked second in the United States for academic research impact in the field of space sciences between 1999 and 2003, behind Princeton University.[55] A report in 2002 had ranked UCSC first for research impact in the space sciences and second in physics.[56] In the last National Research Council rankings of graduate programs, published in 1995, Astronomy and Astrophysics and Linguistics both ranked in the top ten.[57] In 2009, RePEc, an online database of research economics articles, ranked the UCSC Economics Department sixth in the world in the field of international finance.[58] In 2007, High Times magazine placed UCSC as first among US universities as a "counterculture college."[59] In 2009, The Princeton Review (with Gamepro magazine) ranked UC Santa Cruz's Game Design major among the top 50 in the country.[60] In 2011, The Princeton Review and Gamepro Media ranked UC Santa Cruz's graduate programs in Game Design as seventh in the nation.[61]

 

[Lagboltz]

In the 60's Eldridge Cleaver was high up in the radical Black Panther Party. He became a Republican in the 1980's and ran for office. That is probably one of the biggest flip flops of the early radicals.

 

[Pandora]

There are actually quite a few radicals of the '60s who are today teachers, bankers, accountants, and such. They've lost the peace symbols and long hair, quit smoking pot for the most part, and either "sold out" or gone straight, according to your point of view.

The protests were pretty spectacular at times, but really not so dangerous, except, perhaps at Kent State.

The protestors were more focused than the tea partiers of today, too. They were adamantly anti war, anti segregation, pro "social justice", but mainly just anti war and anti draft. The young men of that era had few choices: go to Vietnam, go to Canada, go to jail, or keep a deferment going . The "radicals" mainly chose any course but Vietnam.

Tea partiers are a diverse lot, with the commonality that they aren't so satisfied with the government.

But, who is satisfied with the government these days? I heard that Congress approval rating was down to 6%. I'm surprised it is that high.

Yes, I know them very well and many of them became teachers. I call them Yuppies. They mostly live in the South Hills, and fight to keep more houses from being built in the South Hills. I hate that "I have my house on the hill but you cant have one" attitude.

Drove Volvo's for a long time and now they are driving a Prius. I have long battling arguments with them. Though we are friendly, we disagree. They still have ideas like the military should be disbanded and all the money go to schools even though Oregon gives more to education per child than almost any other state and we are still failing. Battles with some teachers who refuse an American flag in their class room and other battles with teachers who refuse to do a flag salute once a week even though it's the law. I have seen way too much religious intolerance (only to the christian faith though) and all by x hippies. Many of them still smoke pot, don't let the old age fool you and many of the are open about being socialists. As long as they lay their bias's on the table I am good with it.

None of this bothers me when it comes to my daughter being influenced by it. I am glad for her to see the other side she is not seeing at home, we can talk about it and she can learn critical thinking and decide for her self what is right. She is going to be an amazing adult, having been around so many views and learning to decide for herself what seems reasonable and right. I was never taught how to think, I was only ever taught what to think. It took a long time for me to figure out the difference.

 

[Pandora]

In the 60's Eldridge Cleaver was high up in the radical Black Panther Party. He became a Republican in the 1980's and ran for office. That is probably one of the biggest flip flops of the early radicals.

Michael Medved was a huge liberal and activist in the 60's and 70's and now is a conservative with a radio program. I like him He is the one who convinced me not to be so dang angry about Bush being president in 2000

 

[Lagboltz]

Michael Medved was a huge liberal and activist in the 60's and 70's and now is a conservative with a radio program. I like him He is the one who convinced me not to be so dang angry about Bush being president in 2000

On a scale of 0 = liberal to 100 = conservative. Where do you place yourself, and what are the factors that makes you a conservative? The reason I ask is that you seem to be one of the few conservatives here that does not resort to yelling insults and slogans.

 

[Pandora]

On a scale of 0 = liberal to 100 = conservative. Where do you place yourself, and what are the factors that makes you a conservative? The reason I ask is that you seem to be one of the few conservatives here that does not resort to yelling insults and slogans.

99

I am against the death penalty, that is the most liberal view I think I have. Second most would be I am for funding foster care programs and helping the truly disabled, but I honestly think most republicans are for that too. Just not people who can work but found a way to milk the system like one of my brothers have done and so many more people I know.

I feel I am an extreme conservative. It would be easier for me to list the views I have that tend to lean left than I could list the views I have that lean right. Though I really do not like the republican party any more than I like the democrat party. I dislike them for different reasons. I am a registered democrat but no one believes me

Kind of like how most liberals are upset with obama its because he is not left enough, I do not like the republican party because they are not right enough

I think if you read some of my older posts you would change your mind about me

But oddly enough, If I could pick the president.... I would pick Harold Ford Jr... Democrat from Tennessee I have wanted him for president for years and I don't think he is even in politics anymore.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Ford,_Jr.

 

[Openmind]

On a scale of 0 = liberal to 100 = conservative. Where do you place yourself, and what are the factors that makes you a conservative? The reason I ask is that you seem to be one of the few conservatives here that does not resort to yelling insults and slogans.

Well, Lagboltz, this is a little confusing, as I started using that scale in another thread yesterday, but I used 1 as "extreme conservative" and 100 as "extreme liberal!"

Now, my self attributed "75 to 80" score would put me way to the conservative side. . .which obviously I'm not!