The Crumbling GOP

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Do you have a reply that marries the GOP agenda to the Ten Commandments or not? BTW, I was raised christian.

1. I am the Lord your God, You shall have no other gods before me
2. You shall not make for yourself an idol
3. You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God
4. Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy

5. Honor your father and mother
6. You shall not murder
7. You shall not commit adultery
8. You shall not steal
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor
10. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife; you shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor

The first four commandments are about honoring the Creator, not sure how this would line up with any political party. If you believe in or honor a Creator that has nothing to do with anything but you and the Creator you honor.

The second set of 6 commandments is about how to honor eachother. And again this is a personal thing. One democrat may never consider committing adultery and then there are others who don’t think its morally wrong or doesn’t care.

About the only commandment that you might put to a political party is the 6th one. Do not murder. Pro lifers and that are just some in the republican party and even a tiny bit in the democrat party feel strongly that abortion is killing another human being,

But the left could throw out the death penalty and say they are against that sort of murder, but the right wing party is for it.

I think in an argument the right would win out because if we are arguing the 6th commandment it would be judged by the scriptures and the scriptures has shown putting people to death for disobeying the law.


Either way no party obeys the commandments as a whole and no party probably could. Its an individual thing between a person and their Maker
 
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Do you have a reply that marries the GOP agenda to the Ten Commandments or not? BTW, I was raised christian.


Me, too...but I never turned evangelists...so I remained a Christian for a long time.

And yes, the GOP married back in 1980 to the evangelical political movement of Robertson and Falwell..the End-Timers and the Dominionists..and it is so distorted it's like out of a scifi movie..

http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm

The years 1982-1986 marked the period Pat Robertson and radio and televangelists urgently broadcast appeals that rallied Christian followers to accept a new political religion that would turn millions of Christians into an army of political operatives. It was the period when the militant church raised itself from centuries of sleep and once again eyed power.



At the time, most Americans were completely unaware of the militant agenda being preached on a daily basis across the breadth and width of America. Although it was called “Christianity” it can barely be recognized as Christian. It in fact was and is a wolf parading in sheep’s clothing: It was and is a political scheme to take over the government of the United States and then turn that government into an aggressor nation that will forcibly establish the United States as the ruling empire of the twenty-first century. It is subversive, seditious, secretive, and dangerous.[9]



Dominionism is a natural if unintended extension of Social Darwinism and is frequently called “Christian Reconstructionism.” Its doctrines are shocking to ordinary Christian believers and to most Americans. Journalist Frederick Clarkson, who has written extensively on the subject, warned in 1994 that Dominionism “seeks to replace democracy with a theocratic elite that would govern by imposing their interpretation of ‘Biblical Law.’” He described the ulterior motive of Dominionism is to eliminate “…labor unions, civil rights laws, and public schools.” Clarkson then describes the creation of new classes of citizens:

“Women would be generally relegated to hearth and home. Insufficiently Christian men would be denied citizenship, perhaps executed. So severe is this theocracy that it would extend capital punishment [to] blasphemy, heresy, adultery, and homosexuality.”[10]

Today, Dominionists hide their agenda and have resorted to stealth; one investigator who has engaged in internet exchanges with people who identify themselves as religious conservatives said, “They cut and run if I mention the word ‘Dominionism.’”[11] Joan Bokaer, the Director of Theocracy Watch, a project of the Center for Religion, Ethics and Social Policy at Cornell University wrote, “In March 1986, I was on a speaking tour in Iowa and received a copy of the following memo [Pat] Robertson had distributed to the Iowa Republican County Caucus titled, “How to Participate in a Political Party.” It read:

“Rule the world for God.

“Give the impression that you are there to work for the party, not push an ideology.

“Hide your strength.

“Don’t flaunt your Christianity.

“Christians need to take leadership positions. Party officers control political parties and so it is very important that mature Christians have a majority of leadership positions whenever possible, God willing.”[12]

Dominionists have gained extensive control of the Republican Party and the apparatus of government throughout the United States; they continue to operate secretly. Their agenda to undermine all government social programs that assist the poor, the sick, and the elderly is ingeniously disguised under false labels that confuse voters. Nevertheless, as we shall see, Dominionism maintains the necessity of laissez-faire economics, requiring that people “look to God and not to government for help.”[13]



It is estimated that thirty-five million Americans who call themselves Christian, adhere to Dominionism in the United States, but most of these people appear to be ignorant of the heretical nature of their beliefs and the seditious nature of their political goals. So successfully have the televangelists and churches inculcated the idea of the existence of an outside “enemy,” which is attacking Christianity, that millions of people have perceived themselves rightfully overthrowing an imaginary evil anti-Christian conspiratorial secular society.
 
When one examines the progress of its agenda, one sees that Dominionism has met its time table: the complete takeover of the American government was predicted to occur by 2004.[14] Unless the American people reject the GOP’s control of the government, Americans may find themselves living in a theocracy that has already spelled out its intentions to change every aspect of American life including its cultural life, its Constitution and its laws.



Born in Christian Reconstructionism, which was founded by the late R. J. Rushdoony, the framers of the new cult included Rushdoony, his son-in-law Gary North, Pat Robertson, Herb Titus, the former Dean of Robertson’s Regent University School of Public Policy (formerly CBN University), Charles Colson, Robertson’s political strategist, Tim LaHaye, Gary Bauer, the late Francis Schaeffer, and Paul Crouch, the founder of TBN, the world’s largest television network, plus a virtual army of likeminded television and radio evangelists and news talk show hosts.



Dominionism started with the Gospels and turned the concept of the invisible and spiritual “Kingdom of God” into a literal political empire that could be taken by force, starting with the United States of America. Discarding the original message of Jesus and forgetting that Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world,” the framers of Dominionism boldly presented a Gospel whose purpose was to inspire Christians to enter politics and execute world domination so that Jesus could return to an earth prepared for his earthly rule by his faithful “regents.”


How Machiavellianism, Communism, Secular Humanism and Neo-Conservatism Inspired a New Militant and Evil Anti-Christian Religion



In the fifties and sixties, right-wing Christians worried about communists and communism taking over the world. Along with communism, another enemy to Christianity was identified by ministers. In 1982, Francis Schaeffer, who was then the leading evangelical theologian, called Secular Humanism the greatest threat to Christianity the world had ever seen. Soon American fundamentalists and Pentecostals were seeing “humanists” everywhere. Appearing on Pat Robertson’s 700 Club show, Schaeffer claimed that humanism was being forced on Christians; it taught that man was the “center of all things.” Like communism, secular humanism was based on atheism, which was sufficient enough for Schaeffer to conclude that humanism was an enemy to the Kingdom of God.[15]



“The enemy is this other view of reality,” Schaeffer spoke emotionally. Citing the Declaration of Independence as his authorizing document, he said:

“Today we live in a humanist society. They control the schools. They control public television. They control the media in general. And what we have to say is we live in a humanist society….[Because] the courts are not subject to the will of the people through elections or re-election… all the great changes in the last forty years have come through the courts. And what we must get in our mind is the government as a whole, but especially the courts, has become the vehicle to force this view on the total population, even if the total population doesn’t hold the view.”[16]

Schaeffer claimed that the major “titanic changes” to America occurred since 1942:

“If you don’t revolt against tyranny and this is what I call the bottom line, is that not only do you have the privilege but [you have] the duty to revolt. When people force upon you and society that which is absolutely contrary to the Word of God, and which really is tyranny…we have a right to stand against it as a matter of principle. And this was the basis upon which the founding fathers built this country.”

The appeal to evangelicals went further. On April 29, 1985, Billy Graham, the respected and world famous evangelist, told Pat Robertson’s audience on the 700 Club show that:

“[T]he time has come when evangelicals are going to have to think about getting organized corporately….I’m for evangelicals running for public office and winning if possible and getting control of the Congress, getting control of the bureaucracy, getting control of the executive branch of government. I think if we leave it to the other side we’re going to be lost. I would like to see every true believer involved in politics in some way shape or form.”

According to Schaeffer, Robertson, and Billy Graham, then arguably the three most famous and influential leaders in the American protestant church world, “God’s people” had a moral duty to change the government of the United States.[17]



Significantly, at the time, many other fundamentalist ministers were identifying communism and secular humanism as religions. However, the equating of a political ideology on the one hand, and a philosophy that rejects supernaturalism on the other hand, with religions was not accidental.[18] It allowed the preachers to revile an economic-political system as well as a philosophy as false religions, even demonic religions, which Christians should reject at any cost.[19]



Underneath the pejoratives, however, there was a grudging admiration on the part of Pat Robertson and the other politically astute Dominionists, for they saw that a political agenda that wrapped itself in religious robes had the innate power to explode exponentially into the most politically dynamic movement in American and world history.



The result of the new religion was that by the year 2000, thirty-five million Americans would declare war on the remaining 245 million. Karl Rove, President Bush’s political advisor, told the Family Research Council in 2002, “We need to find ways to win the war.”[20] One is tempted to respond, “Wait a minute, they’re in power so why do they need to continue the war?” That is the salient question. The answer is frightening.



Starting with a simple idea, Robertson perceived the enormous advantage of placing an otherwise unacceptable political theory into a religious context. By doing so it would stand Christianity up-side-down and end American democracy.

[/QUOTE]


And I"m not out to "move" you...just keeping the FBI aware of those who would seek to harm our president...
 
You said quite a lot there. I'd like to see you dip further back in history in reference to xtianity...like the 9th Century or so..

Get into some real details there. Try ferreting out the unnamed "beloved disciple." That should be fun...;)

Anyway, I'm still not seeing a reply that bridges the gap between the Ten Commandments and what the GOP has been up to.

I guess I never will. What would be the answer? What would be the excuse except, "Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law'?
 
You said quite a lot there. I'd like to see you dip further back in history in reference to xtianity...like the 9th Century or so..

Get into some real details there. Try ferreting out the unnamed "beloved disciple." That should be fun...;)

Anyway, I'm still not seeing a reply that bridges the gap between the Ten Commandments and what the GOP has been up to.

I guess I never will. What would be the answer? What would be the excuse except, "Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law'?

Why go back that far? The HUGE split between Christians who emphasize Christ and Fundamentalists who barely quote him is here and now..and got an uprising with the republican party in 1980.
 
Some of the reasons the GOP is withering may be:

The GOP is associated with the murderous thievery of Iraq's oil distribution rights. Thanks to GWB, who never provided the world with any information that Saddam was about to clandestinely obtain a Soviet Nuke or any true WMD from anywhere, plus lack of evidence of any Al Qaeda activity in Iraq, etc., the rational conclusion was the truth of the matter reflected in the previous sentence which occurred to keep Saddam from diverting America's share of Iraqi crude to China. The public truly does know the truth of this matter, and the public generally doesn't like being associated with such attrocities.

The GOP is associated with the ancient neanderthal system of socioeconomics presently championed by them, where what's best for the alpha male CEO is best for America. But women and children and other men who don't idealize or aspire to be alphas and, well just about everyone else likely to be pushed off the base of Maslow's Hierarchy of Need by this ancient, outdated dog-eat-dog system of socioeconomics disagrees that this system the GOP champions is really all that good for them.

People eventually get tired of being fooled, even run-of-the-mill Republicans, by tactics such as troting out the abortion issue or the gay-marriage issue simply to compel economically complacent GOP voters to the polls, only to have their GWB-type leaders immediately put those matters back to sleep for another four years once their thereby successful election has finished. Being used so regularly grates on even Republican fundamentalist Christian nerves.

Remember, the GOP was lucky to have had the eight years they just had, and had the Greens not existed in 2000, we would likely be just finishing up Gore's second term, culminating 16 consecutive years of rule by the Democrats.

Minus the religion, traditional social values make a great foundation.

However, traditional economic values really suck, and nothing illustrates this reality more than the bankers spending their bailout, not on making loans to businesses so they can continue, but by opportunistically buying up other banks, as the CEOs dictate. Even those who admirally value traditional social ethics found themselves tossing said ethics under the bus in angry response.

Clearly the GOP-championed Money System no longer finds favor in the majority. So the GOP either has to wait until the Democrats screw up and the public reacts with votes for the GOP regardless of the GOP positions (in true public masses fashion), or the GOP has to change their evil economic ways to meet the needs of evolved human beings alive today.

Good luck to the GOP.

Hopefully they will not RIP.
 
Good points Chip and Cookie...mmmm makes me think of chocolate chip cookies..:p

Agreed. The GOP is the party of "ooga booga rules".

I enjoyed watching their antics this election. I kept wondering how far they would be allowed to gyrate the truth, to flip it on its backside, twist it, turn it, weave it in and out on the loom of audacity and hubris..

FINALLY the thinking members of the GOP, those with still a shred of moral fiber left in their bodies...namely practicing chrisitians, had seen enough.

It's what it really boils down to. With Ooga booga politics, generally they line members up behind a religious theme measured against free-thinking and introspection are a little lean, inversely proportional to how avid a republican you run across it seems.. But even within the ranks of the blindly faithful, we have many many good people, good christians and those of other faiths who can see the writing on the wall, in blood, in Satan's handwriting if you will..

That's why I've focused this thread on the root of the matter. I don't like to waste time skirting around peripheral adjuncts to the underlying theme. The underlying theme of the GOP crumbling is a crises of faith, born from the fact that those who are prone to religious thinking must have a foundation to be religious from. That foundation with christians all boils down to the 10 Commandments. It is clear: you must not waver from those basic edicts of God, else you are not a christian and the Bible is rendered worthless.

And yet....

We have the GOP (their party remember) espousing a full eightfold-rebellion of the ten commandments. They'd have been OK maybe even at breaking six or seven...but apparently 8 was the magic number. Christians said aloud "enough is enough!"....those that don't live by the credo "do what thou will, shall be the whole of the law"..
 
How can you be a christian and a republican?

One is allegedly about helping each other and the other is about every man for himself.
 
To be fair, the christians were largely led astray. And this is my biggest argument against dogmatic thinking...or rather, lack of thinking..

There have been many theories of social psychology circulating around about how Nazi Germany came to be. After WWII, Germans felt lost, stunned at their own conduct and what they, as a nation, would tolerate. If you weren't a jew and were just a plain old white German, you could still be "disappeared" if you spoke against the nazis. What started out as a few buzzwords that hooked a pervasive, but still benign, anti-semitism, turned into a fascist regime run by a madman within a few short years of his manipulating power for himself.

A good con knows all the right buzzwords...like "freedom" "liberation", "patriotism" and "God-fearing" (the irony..).

Hardly without good christians knowing, their God had been stealthily replaced with worship of capitialism first, God second. All it took was a few buzzwords. How else could you get good people of a nice faith (for it is nice at it's roots) like christianity to go along with breaking most of the 10 Commandments in the name of profiteering? You stealthily equate "capitialism" with "God". And that is exactly what was done. (Goodbye Commandment numero uno).

Much like Hitler stealthily instilled the equality of "jew" with "Evil". It's a word game. A dangerous one. We seldom realize the power of words and the potent meanings packed behind them. We become numb to language and to examining the arrangement of words perhaps. When someone can convince us that up is down, left is right, jew is evil or capitialism is God, it's time to sit down and really think about words and their true meanings. And its time to sit down and think for oneself.

I've always been a proponent of 'free-thought leads to Godliness, as long as you always run it by your own inner voice, your inner knowing.' Once you place the reality of "truth" in someone else's hands, you're on the first step down a slippery slope.
 
As I say, how can christians be republicans?

The last republican regime has seen simliar activities to those of nazi Germany.

Muslims instead of Jews, oil instead of Lebensrau.
 
True true. No matter how hard the GOP leaders (BigBusiness profiteers) try to mix oil and water, they just cannot easily get the christians to abandone ALL of the Ten Commandments. Apparently they've drawn the line at 7 down the toilet. 8 was one too many.
 
Bush's Ten Commandment

You shall have no other Gods but me apart from oil and money
You shall not make for yourself any idol, nor bow down to it or worship it.
You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God unless you need to justify a dodgy war.
You shall remember and keep the Sabbath day holy unless you need to bomb Iraqis
Respect your father and mother.
You must not kill unless the victim has brown skin and oil or gas.
You must not commit adultery.
You must not steal anything except the oil and gas of another nation or your own election victory
You must not give false evidence against your neighbour unless your neighbour is Iraq and the lie is about WMD
You must not be envious of your neighbour's goods. You shall not be envious of his house nor his wife, nor anything that belongs to your neighbour. Except his oil and gas which you can envy
 
I wonder sometimes how many people we're really talking about here with regard to implied conscious decisions.

I would imagine that 99% or so of "Republicans" are simply incidentally that, either without much thought or bother, or out of some largely shallow-pool unconscious issue(s) left over from their unrecovered family of origin matters.

For the unconscious, a head-clubbing by the economy can easily awaken a swing of five million votes or so, I would guess.
 
I would say the breakdown goes like this:

As with Nazi Germany...

A small group at the top of the GOP that are pure evil. They are mentally ill and the choice to be good no longer exists. They are "owned" by the darker forces of the Universe. Dick Cheney comes to mind here, as does Bush and their little group of oil demons.

Below them are a subservient group of perhaps hundreds that are less responsible for calling the shots, but more on the side of blindly enforcing them. Let's call them: "homeland security" and "The CIA"...They are almost as evil as the top group, but are acting brainlessly, reflexively like they trained them to do in boot camp...without questioning their superiors..in itself a form of mental illness...

Below them are thousands of high end business men and women who have placed worshipping God second to worshipping money and the bottom line. They are perhaps the most evil of all because they are aware that there is a choice between God and money and they willingly choose money.

Below them are millions of ordinary folk who aspire to be like those with more money...but are far more innocent and usually chant the GOP ilk because of a simplistic mindset that just hooks on buzzwords like "freedome" "liberty" and the old First-Commandment breaker: "for the sake of Goodness and christian values.." *urp* ...whoa...had to choke back down by breakfast there..:eek:

So there's the monster right there.. The GOP breakdown.

The problem is that the largest chunk of constituents are at the bottom. And those people still have a shot at Heaven. As dull as they seem, they know the Bible usually inside and out...at the very least we all seem to know the Ten Commandments. Even they know something smells fishy when they are told that up is down and bad is good...
 
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You missed a tier out.

The banks are always at the top.

They don't mind a bit of good old fashioned genocide if it makes them richer
 
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