The Gaza Strip

[Sihouette]

The BBC's Christian Fraser, allowed over the Egypt-Gaza border for the first time, says conditions for Palestinian families seeking refuge from the Israeli bombardment of Rafah in a UN-run school are very difficult.

There are hundreds of children there, he says, but food supplies are limited, electricity is available for only eight hours a day and there is no running water.

Our correspondent says that from the damage he has been allowed to see in Rafah, homes and a playground were right next to one Israeli strike on what it said were Hamas militants...

.. The UN headquarters in Gaza was also hit on Thursday.

Hundreds of Gazans had been seeking refuge in the compound when it was attacked by Israeli shells, causing a fire that destroyed vital food supplies.

Speaking a day later, the senior UN official in Gaza, John Ging, described as "total nonsense" claims by the Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert that militants were using the compound to fire on Israeli troops.
Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7832406.stm

That strike, dear friends, was a result of a direct order from the US CIA. Guaranteed.

And the attacks continue on the Sabbath...from a nation of "jews"...

Here, let's play follow the breadcrumbs again..

..Israel’s defense minister, Ehud Barak, and his generals favor a temporary cease-fire of several days to a week, partly so that when President-elect Barack Obama is inaugurated next week it would be during a lull..

..Israeli Jews are firmly behind the government’s conduct of the war, with the human rights groups representing a small minority...
Source: NYTimes article above posts

Who are these great majority mobs of the unclean? The unkosher? And why dear friends do they want to back off during American political hoopla over a mere inaugeration during a greater event such as their assault in Gaza?

How would the plight of Israel be served by bombing the UN headquarters? Bombing the UN Headquarters...bombing the UN headquarters...now where have I seen that before...hmmm....???

Now connect the dots. Hello Hague? Are you out there? Someone is openly declaring war on the UN. Care to arraign anyone? The majority of US citizens are behind you if you just say the word...

 

[Andy]

That strike, dear friends, was a result of a direct order from the US CIA. Guaranteed.

Based on what evidence?

And the attacks continue on the Sabbath...from a nation of "jews"...

And they are going to, since they don't see a problem defending their people from a Jewish perspective.

Who are these great majority mobs of the unclean? The unkosher? And why dear friends do they want to back off during American political hoopla over a mere inaugeration during a greater event such as their assault in Gaza?

How would the plight of Israel be served by bombing the UN headquarters? Bombing the UN Headquarters...bombing the UN headquarters...now where have I seen that before...hmmm....???

Now connect the dots. Hello Hague? Are you out there? Someone is openly declaring war on the UN. Care to arraign anyone? The majority of US citizens are behind you if you just say the word...

Huh??? Declaring war on the UN? All we have to do is pull out of the U.N., and there is no U.N.

 

[Pidgey]

Huh??? Declaring war on the UN? All we have to do is pull out of the U.N., and there is no U.N.

Naaahhh... there's a bunch of thugs that'd still show up.

 

[Sihouette]

Based on what evidence?

Here, let me walk you through it:

..Israel’s defense minister, Ehud Barak, and his generals favor a temporary cease-fire of several days to a week, partly so that when President-elect Barack Obama is inaugurated next week it would be during a lull.. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/15/world/middleeast/15mideast.html?_r=1

Speaking a day later, the senior UN official in Gaza, John Ging, described as "total nonsense" claims by the Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert that militants were using the compound to fire on Israeli troops. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7832406.stm

Facts:

1. Israel attacked Gaza and declared to continue to hammer with an iron fist until Hamas went belly up.
2. The UN called for them to cease. They flipped the UN the middle finger (what other country has done that recently that is buddies with Israel?)
3. They were lambasted by many nations to stop.

*nothing*

4. Pleas from protestors, orthodox and kosher jews within their own country met with again *nothing*
5. They (the Israel generals) swear mightily to continue bombing no matter what!!

But then suddenly a nuance from the US's political machine gets them to cease-fire. The reason? The US is having big party and Israel, excuse me, I mean the sitting Israeli generals, don't want to detract from the festivities....

6. The UN continues to make progress towards making a case against Bushco/BigOil.

7. To wrap up before the US festivities begin, the Israeli generals bomb the UN in Gaza...just for good measure...and gives a bogus reason for doing so. Remember Israel, the country that wants world sympathy, just bombed the UN building with medical and food supplies for the injured...with a bogus reason...

Who takes orders from who?

Oh yeah, and don't forget that Bin Laden (member of the Bin Laden family, longtime oil cohorts and family friends of the Bush's) *suddenly* appears out of nowhere to ramp up the belligerence because the press isn't getting shining enough light on the situation....Bin Laden, on the eve of getting what he is supposedly after from the Obama adminitration...US withdrawel from the Middle East on Obama's watch...suddenly feels something to gain by pissing off and threatening the Obama administration??

And don't forget all this is about an excuse to piss of Iran...talk about your going-away bashes.... What does Iran have that the Bushco's unofficial 51st state has agreed to help them get?

O_I_L It's all about oil oil oil oil oil oil oil oil oil oil oil oil oil OIL.

Follow the breadcrumbs... And stop playing dumb. It's ruining your credibility.

 

[Andy]

Facts:

1. Israel attacked Gaza and declared to continue to hammer with an iron fist until Hamas went belly up.
2. The UN called for them to cease. They flipped the UN the middle finger (what other country has done that recently that is buddies with Israel?)

Iraq under Saddam? Oh wait, they were not buddies with Israel.
Iran? Oh wait...
China? Russia?

Come on Sil, there are dozens that flip off the UN routinely.

3. They were lambasted by many nations to stop.

Doesn't mean anything. If our country was hit by mortars, we'd attack until we got the bastards, regardless of the "many other nations".

4. Pleas from protestors, orthodox and kosher jews within their own country met with again *nothing*

Um.. I personally have seen the opposite. Most of the orthodox Jews want Israel to protect their people, and stop Hamas.

5. They (the Israel generals) swear mightily to continue bombing no matter what!!

Good.

But then suddenly a nuance from the US's political machine gets them to cease-fire. The reason? The US is having big party and Israel doesn't want to detract from the festivities....

Doesn't that tend to disprove your prior theory that the US government is behind Israel shelling?

6. To wrap up before the festivities begin, the Israeli generals bomb the UN...just for good measure.

Ok that makes perfect sense. So we're pressuring Israel to stop, while at the same time, ordering them through the CIA to bomb the UN compound.

I'm still looking for the real evidence that the CIA forced Israel to bomb the UN compound. Do you have that? Or just some strange loose connections that are only logical to you?

 

[Sihouette]

Explain to me the logic behind the "israeli" generals' decision to forestall shelling while the inaugeral party is going on? Why, when many other more compelling reasons...like disobeying the Ten Commandments killing on the Sabbath, pleas from neighboring countries, the UN, their own people..all fall on deaf ears...

Oh, but an American block party? Suddenly the shelling needs to stop.

Odd, don't you think? Even by your dismissive standards..

 

[Andy]

Explain to me the logic behind the "israeli" generals' decision to forestall shelling while the inaugeral party is going on? Why, when many other more compelling reasons...like disobeying the Ten Commandments killing on the Sabbath, pleas from neighboring countries, the UN, their own people..all fall on deaf ears...

Oh, but an American block party? Suddenly the shelling needs to stop.

Odd, don't you think? Even by your dismissive standards..

You are coming from two false presuppositions. Their people are not telling them to stop. Neither the Sabbath, nor the ten commandments requires them to not defend their people.

Further, no country should stop defending itself because of other countries that hate them, tell them to stop. If Canada hated the US, and despised our people, and had our complete destruction as a goal, I wouldn't care much if they asked us to stop attacking Al Qaeda strong holds.

Finely, once again, the UN is a joke. I'm in favor of everyone ignoring the UN. They never do anything right, never help any situation they are in, and are completely useless for any good thing. Not to mention they have been caught in a number of scandals like the "Oil-for-Food" scandal.

Doesn't that make you hate them to? They got cheap oil through a scheme with an oppressive dictator. Isn't it funny how you constantly have a problems with the US for unsupportable BigOil conspiracies, and yet don't have a problem with actual schemes and scams and scandals involving other people, even to the point that you value their word above our own.

But then you go on with this wacky view that the CIA caused them to shell the UN compound, yet obviously we stopped them from shelling during the inauguration. So which is it? Are we causing them to shell? Or stopping them to shell?

It seem to me that it is pretty clear that Obama talked to Ehud Barak, and convinced him that Israels standing in the US government would be "more favorable" if they ceased-fire during the inauguration. See, I believe that Obama is incredibly arrogant. It's all about him. It's all about how great he is. This is a guy whom Farrakhan claimed was a the messiah, and Obama never dismissed it.

So it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he contacted Israel to tell them to stop because he didn't want the conflict there to take away from the "historic inauguration" of Obama. Unless you have some actual evidence to submit, that's all this is to me. It's the messianic ego, who doesn't want anything to spoil his limelight.

 

[Sihouette]

Further, no country should stop defending itself because of other countries that hate them, tell them to stop.

But they bow out of that necessity for a US block party? I still am not getting your defense that US covert ops aren't running the show?

 

[Andy]

But they bow out of that necessity for a US block party? I still am not getting your defense that US covert ops aren't running the show?

I'm supposed to prove a negative? Um... logical fallacy anyone? Sih, your supposed to prove covert ops are running the show... you know, with something more than "isn't it obvious?"

There isn't any evidence that the US is covertly pushing Israel to attack. There is tons of evidence that Israel is retaliating to being attacked by Hamas mortar shells. There is no evidence that BigOil is interested in the Gaza strip which contains no oil. There is tons of evidence that the US has routinely pushed Israel to not respond to attacks against it's civilians.

In short, you are the one that needs to supply some actual evidence for you conspiracy theory, not me to disprove it.

 

[Sihouette]

I did, and so did you. You and I both agreed that in order to defend ( I say "defend") Israel, their surge needs to continue as they boldly declared they would until Hamas fell...or until the US has an inaugeral party...

Whichever comes first I guess...


Where are the Israeli generals getting their "fire" and "cease-fire" orders from therefore? The US.

Pretending that isnt' highly reflective of what I'm asserting is just making you look bad at this point Andy..

This just in as Prez-elect's train makes its way to DC:

JERUSALEM – Israel declared a unilateral cease-fire Saturday in its 22-day offensive that turned Gaza neighborhoods into battlegrounds and dealt a stinging blow to the Islamic militants of Hamas. But Israeli troops will stay in the Palestinian territory for now and Hamas threatened to keep fighting until they leave.
Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090117/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians

Just like they said they would, right on the eve of the US festivities...and even with Hamas still fighting until they leave..! How's that for their overt reason for attacking dissolving into thin air...and all at the beckon and call of the US?

US (BigOil) says: "sick 'em"...it'll piss off Iran.." Then the US sees its' getting them nowhere. US says "down boy...easy boy..." and voila! It's done! Your sidetracking with trying to steer the topic to "cannot prove a negative" is one of those perpetual loops I'm supposed to get snagged in.

I say, nope. I say, Israel is a sham nation, a launching point for BigOil politics. If the orthodox jews had any balls there they'd tell the US covert ops to shove it where the sun doesn't shine. US influence has perhaps caused a condition wherein their messiah may never come for them. The shame of it all...roping in the younger generations to become unclean.. Are their souls really worth no more than just a bunch of crude oil?

 

[Andy]

I did, and so did you. You and I both agreed that in order to defend ( I say "defend") Israel, their surge needs to continue as they boldly declared they would until Hamas fell...or until the US has an inaugeral party...

Whichever comes first I guess...


Where are the Israeli generals getting their "fire" and "cease-fire" orders from therefore? The US.

Pretending that isnt' highly reflective of what I'm asserting is just making you look bad at this point Andy..

This just in as Prez-elect's train makes its way to DC:

Um... before you were claiming we were directing Israel, through the CIA, to make war. Now your claiming we're stopping them?

Beyond that, no kidding. We've always been quick to request they cease hostilities. I disagree with that. I have always said Israel should be free to defeat their enemies who attack them, just as much as we would.

Just like they said they would, right on the eve of the US festivities...and even with Hamas still fighting until they leave..! How's that for their overt reason for attacking dissolving into thin air...and all at the beckon and call of the US?

US (BigOil) says: "sick 'em"...it'll piss off Iran.." Then the US sees its' getting them nowhere. US says "down boy...easy boy..." and voila! It's done! Your sidetracking with trying to steer the topic to "cannot prove a negative" is one of those perpetual loops I'm supposed to get snagged in.

Ok, so BigOil is interesting in pissing off Iran.... why? How does Iran being pissed off help BigOil?

Further, why would Israel responding to being shelled, cause Iran to get pissed, as opposed to say any other Muslim nation that wants to destroy Israel?

Moreover, Israel has been doing this for 50 years. If every time Israel has done this, has been because of us pushing it, are you saying that every single president, including Clinton and Carter, are also directly part of the grand BigOil conspiracy?

Worse, are you saying we said "sick em" each time, despite it not working any of the other times, but we just forgot that and tried it all again?

Lastly, are you claiming the mortar attacks against Israel are fabricated, or what? How exactly do they fit into the grand scheme? Maybe Israel, under the direction of BigOil, actually wants them to attack with rockets?

I say, nope. I say, Israel is a sham nation, a launching point for BigOil politics. If the orthodox jews had any balls there they'd tell the US covert ops to shove it where the sun doesn't shine. US influence has perhaps caused a condition wherein their messiah may never come for them. The shame of it all...roping in the younger generations to become unclean.. Are their souls really worth no more than just a bunch of crude oil?

Once again, you haven't proved there are any covert ops. Plus the orthodox Jews are actually more in favor of taking over the remainder of traditional Israel, than the secular Jews. Plus there isn't a single example of Israel-Arab conflict resulting in BigOil anything.

If their Messiah does come, it will be after they have completed the work he requires of them... namely to reclaim the original land of Israel.

ooo! I know! Perhaps the American Covert Ops are all actually just Jewish Rabbis trying to trigger the coming of the Messiah by pushing Israel to conquer all of ancient Israel!?!

 

[Andy]

Yes, Good Ol' President Carter... don't suppose you know the story of Chalk River back in '52, huh?

An old friend once remarked that he thought that Carter probably tried harder to be a good president than any had in the last century--it just didn't work out like people thought it should. If, however, Peak Oil turns out to be correct, then his path very well should have been the one we took.

I assume you refer to the minor break downs at a nuclear research lab. Even if Carter was involved, that doesn't make him any less of an idiot from a presidential perspective. Nor does being involved in a clean up, mean you know diddly jack about nuclear power.

People get this strange idea that if I sign up for membership to Sierra Club, and work my way up the organization, that somehow this means I'm brighter than the average 10 year old. Not so. Many of these non-profit organizations require no abilities other than to make a good speech, chant some empty motto, and to convince people you have a clue what your talking about. It's a lot like politics. As long as you can say "hope and change" over and over, while pretending you have a clue what's going on, you can convince people your not an idiot.

Carters actions proved him to be an idiot. His clean up crew activity, is fine. I'll give him a gold star, and a "thank-you" cookie treat. That doesn't make his utter incompetence any better in retrospect.

As far as adopting his path, we can do that at any moment. Simply install price controls on any form of energy, and you can have national shortages in a matter of a few days.

 

[Sihouette]

Sorry, but this thread is about the recent events in the Gaza Strip.

Which have ceased due to a party the US is having. Which is friggin' weird and shady at best.

 

[Sihouette]

Um... before you were claiming we were directing Israel, through the CIA, to make war. Now your claiming we're stopping them?~ Andy

Precisely. Bushco's kangaroo intelligence unit is nothing if not adaptable. They saw they were getting too much negative press from the Gaza activities, so they found a convenient excuse to stop.

They're sloppy too. They went on (the "Israeli" generals) to declare vehemence untill Hamas was smashed not one week ago. Then they casually remark that they will probably hang it up for the US's Inaugeral bash "to not cast a shadow on it". And so they did.

You don't wage a vehement, supposedly religious-based assault-to-the-finish and expect the world to believe you when you hang it up for a big party that your buddy is having.

That has REALLY watered down any previous belief I had that Israel's actions in that region are faith-based. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they stopped. Maybe the US should have an inaugeral party every three weeks just to keep the peace in Gaza? Add that to the fact that the shelling went on without abate on the Sabbath and you've really taken the veil off the ruse. To me, and of course I could be wrong, it APPEARS as if Israel is at the beckon and call of the CIA, and not the other way around, and that the CIA is not at all about keeping jew's faith clean so their messiah will come, but instead has inserted puppet generals to do their bidding at the expense of the collective Soul of the orthodox jewish faith.

Again, very convenient non-religious assault right in the region that would piss off Iran...right on the eve of Bushco leaving office...?

It's like one big tootsie-roll of weird and incongruent whirlwinds all seeming to ebb and flow with american politics..

Just saying...

 

[Andy]

Precisely. Bushco's kangaroo intelligence unit is nothing if not adaptable. They saw they were getting too much negative press from the Gaza activities, so they found a convenient excuse to stop.

They're sloppy too. They went on (the "Israeli" generals) to declare vehemence untill Hamas was smashed not one week ago. Then they casually remark that they will probably hang it up for the US's Inaugeral bash "to not cast a shadow on it". And so they did.

You don't wage a vehement, supposedly religious-based assault-to-the-finish and expect the world to believe you when you hang it up for a big party that your buddy is having.

No one anywhere said the assault was "religious-based". Israel had finely had enough of being hit with mortars, firing a few rockets back, being hit with mortars again, firing a few rockets back. It was time to act. The attempts at a peaceful solution were met with rockets fired into Israel.

They had to respond. Their citizens demanded it, and rightly so since they were the ones dying.

That has REALLY watered down any previous belief I had that Israel's actions in that region are faith-based. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they stopped. Maybe the US should have an inaugeral party every three weeks just to keep the peace in Gaza?

Huh? You think there's peace? Maybe you missed the rocket attack that happened directly after the "cease-fire"?

Palestinian militants fired about 20 rockets over the border after the Israeli ceasefire announcement, and Israel responded with an air attack.

That happened today, just a day after the announcement of a cease-fire came into effect. There is no peace.

Little hint about international conflicts... when one side wants to completely destroy the other, like Hamas does Israel, there will never be peace until one side, completely defeats the other. Until then, rocket attacks, and responding air strikes are going to continue indefinitely.

Add that to the fact that the shelling went on without abate on the Sabbath and you've really taken the veil off the ruse. To me, and of course I could be wrong, it APPEARS as if Israel is at the beckon and call of the CIA, and not the other way around, and that the CIA is not at all about keeping jew's faith clean so their messiah will come, but instead has inserted puppet generals to do their bidding at the expense of the collective Soul of the orthodox jewish faith.

Again, very convenient non-religious assault right in the region that would piss off Iran...right on the eve of Bushco leaving office...?

It's like one big tootsie-roll of weird and incongruent whirlwinds all seeming to ebb and flow with american politics..

Just saying...

I have a question for you.... If I find an orthodox Jew, and have him explain, in an Email, that war with another nation is not a violation of the Sabbath, will you give up this lame argument? I promise I'll do it.