Amnesty for illegals.

BytheRules

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Feb 3, 2007
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Congress wrestles with legislation to grant lawbreakers a pathway to citizenship. Bush should be a very happy man now that his Democrat
majority in congress will likely side with his attempts to grant an amnesty plan. What treason! Anyone who has studied this subject sees a disaster coming. How many will be enough? All politicians who vote for this crap should be required to live in Laredo, Tx for five years.
 
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USMC the Almighty

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Congress wrestles with legislation to grant lawbreakers a pathway to citizenship. Bush should be a very happy man now that his Democrat majority in congress will likely side with his attempts to grant an amnesty plan. What treason! Anyone who has studied this subject sees a disaster coming. How many will be enough? All politicians who vote for this crap should be required to live in Laredo, Tx for five years.

I can't even believe there's a debate about this. We are contemplating whether or not to deport ILLEGAL immigrants? This is absolutely absurd. We don't reward people for breaking the laws of this country.
 

Enlightened One

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I can't even believe there's a debate about this. We are contemplating whether or not to deport ILLEGAL immigrants? This is absolutely absurd. We don't reward people for breaking the laws of this country.

That's the truth, if I have ever heard it. They will kick American illegals out of most countries without thinking twice, why should we be any different?
 

1krazykapt

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The fact that we have an illegal proplem is an out rage. They are not helping our econemy at all. they depress wages use a higher share of socal services and send billions evry year out of the country. And that song and dance that there only trying to feed the kids is getting old.
 

saggyjones

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The fact that we have an illegal proplem is an out rage.

Maybe we should tighten the border security.

1krazykapt said:
They are not helping our econemy at all.

Yeah, agriculture doesn't really matter all that much. Who needs to eat?

1krazykapt said:
they depress wages use a higher share of socal services and send billions evry year out of the country.

If we legalize them, we can tax them, and they won't depress wages because they'll be forced to compete.

1krazykapt said:
And that song and dance that there only trying to feed the kids is getting old.

What, do you think they are trying to take Americans' jobs because they hate us? *Edit: I apologize for the insult.* Also, learn how to spell.
 

saggyjones

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We need to legalize the ones here for the following reasons:

- The government gets more money from their taxes.

- We don't spend money looking for illegals and deporting them.

- They would have a much better life.

- The strain on the welfare system will be alleviated by us taxing them.

- They won't strain the health care system anymore because they will be taxed and can get health insurance.

- They will be paid the same as Americans and wouldn't be taking jobs away from them.

But we also need to tighten border security so more illegals can't cross.

After legalizing them, the president would explain why it was happening and state that any more illegals would be promptly deported. But the ones here now are already rooted into our economy.
 

Lilly Marlene

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Just a quick reply saggyjones, to the posts you've made in response to krazykapt.

Three of your arguments are flawed (please see my answer to you from last night, in the other thread about illegal immigration).

Unfortunately, the flawed arguments are the three upon which your position (granting legal citizenship) most depends.
 

saggyjones

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Just a quick reply saggyjones, to the posts you've made in response to krazykapt.

Three of your arguments are flawed (please see my answer to you from last night, in the other thread about illegal immigration).

Unfortunately, the flawed arguments are the three upon which your position (granting legal citizenship) most depends.

Why don't you reply to my response to your answer in the other thread? At least respond to the post below the response to krazykapt.

Confusing lol
 

Friendindeed

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What, do you think they are trying to take Americans' jobs because they hate us? You are one dumb asshole. Also, learn how to spell.

There is an intelligent comeback. If you had skill at debate, you wouldn't resort to name calling in your post to krazykat.
 

Lilly Marlene

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Why don't you reply to my response to your answer in the other thread? At least respond to the post below the response to krazykapt.

Confusing lol


saggyjones, this sounds strange but I tell you honestly, when I was here in the evening I didn't see any replies to what I had written last night.

I know you posted one (I just checked and saw it there) but the name showing when I left before was "Lilly Marlene".

Anyway, let me go see it now; a lot of what you wrote to krazykapt reiterates what you wrote in that other thread.
 

Lilly Marlene

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Okay, saggyjones, now I'm responding to the post beneath your reply to krazykapt, as you asked.


We need to legalize the ones here for the following reasons:

- The government gets more money from their taxes.

- We don't spend money looking for illegals and deporting them.

- They would have a much better life.

- The strain on the welfare system will be alleviated by us taxing them.

- They won't strain the health care system anymore because they will be taxed and can get health insurance.

- They will be paid the same as Americans and wouldn't be taking jobs away from them.

But we also need to tighten border security so more illegals can't cross.

After legalizing them, the president would explain why it was happening and state that any more illegals would be promptly deported. But the ones here now are already rooted into our economy.


So ...I'll just repeat each one using " " and then bolds to avoid the more cumbersome coding.

"The government gets more money from their taxes."

It has been estimated according to the expertise of both economists and social workers that citizens in the income range most immigrants would achieve - once naturalized - tend to use more dollars in social services than what they contribute with their income, property and sales taxes combined.
These are generally in the form of public education, income support like food stamps and Medicaid, and law enforcement/prison expenses.
Please see the website FAIR.org for a full treatment of that topic.

The only assessment differing with that was made by state employee Carol Strayhorn in Texas, last December, and has been dismantled since that time, because she failed to inject expenses for the County into her equation as a factor.


" We don't spend money looking for illegals and deporting them."

According to your model, we would start doing that immediately following the amnesty, so I fail to follow the reasoning there.

"They would have a much better life."

The job which America's elected officials are hired to do is to take care of Americans first, just as the parent of children is obligated to take care of his or her children before taking care of the neighbor's children.
The presence in this country of 12 to 20 million more low-skilled workers creates stress and depresses wages for low skilled Americans and will continue to do so even after amnesty because of the numbers. That is not an acceptable way to take care of America first.


"The strain on the welfare system will be alleviated by us taxing them."

See my response to your first contention above, of which that contention was essentially an elaboration.

"They won't strain the health care system anymore because they will be taxed and can get health insurance."

LOL, Yeah ... once you start getting taxed on your low skilled job you can easily afford health insurance, right? I guess tens of thousands of US citizens just don't want any health insurance then.


" They will be paid the same as Americans and wouldn't be taking jobs away from them."

It's quite clear that they would be competing for the exact same jobs as many rural and/or mimimally-educated Americans who did NOT enter illegally.

Please recall for example that after the Swift Plant raids in December, lines of Americans citizens were queuing out onto the streets ...US citizens hoping to get those jobs.


"But we also need to tighten border security so more illegals can't cross."

Agreed.

"After legalizing them, the president would explain why it was happening and state that any more illegals would be promptly deported. But the ones here now are already rooted into our economy."

That puppet would explain nothing to them.
Please acquaint yourself with his groveling exchanges last week among our southern neighbors.

Illegal immigrants are 'rooted into our economy' for the sole reason that this administration has allowed it as payback to their corporate buddies for contributions and as part of the globalist plan to weaken our national sovereignty.
 

saggyjones

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There is an intelligent comeback. If you had skill at debate, you wouldn't resort to name calling in your post to krazykat.

Guess I don't have skill. But I apologize for the insult and it's been edited. Don't get me wrong, I don't change my opinion of him, because I truly don't like him for what he said about immigrants. But it's not right to say that on a forum, so I apologize krazykat.
 

Friendindeed

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206
Guess I don't have skill. But I apologize for the insult and it's been edited. Don't get me wrong, I don't change my opinion of him, because I truly don't like him for what he said about immigrants. But it's not right to say that on a forum, so I apologize krazykat.


He didn't say it about immigrants.
He said it about ILLEGAL immigrants.
;)
There is a B-I-G difference.
 

saggyjones

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Reno NV
Okay, saggyjones, now I'm responding to the post beneath your reply to krazykapt, as you asked.

So ...I'll just repeat each one using " " and then bolds to avoid the more cumbersome coding.

Yeah, it's much easier this way.

Lilly Marlene said:
"The government gets more money from their taxes."

It has been estimated according to the expertise of both economists and social workers that citizens in the income range most immigrants would achieve - once naturalized - tend to use more dollars in social services than what they contribute with their income, property and sales taxes combined.
These are generally in the form of public education, income support like food stamps and Medicaid, and law enforcement/prison expenses.
Please see the website FAIR.org for a full treatment of that topic.

The only assessment differing with that was made by state employee Carol Strayhorn in Texas, last December, and has been dismantled since that time, because she failed to inject expenses for the County into her equation as a factor.

First of all, can you link to the article? I looked at the FAIR.org archives and there are lots having to do with immigration.

Immigrants go to school and use our tax money for education regardless of status, so that one's out.

About food stamps, this quote explains it:
...'immigrants' need not worry about their 'status' and are encouraged to apply. States are barred (by the federal Privacy Act) from denying an applicant any benefits if the applicant refuses to provide a social security number.

http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2...p://www.alipac.us/article1618.html&frame=true

Hospitals have to accept someone regardless of status. But you're right, Medicaid is something they would be eligible for. I really don't find it possible that they will start taking out more than they will put in with taxes, because they were already using too many government funded programs before they were made legal. (That was a hard tense to write in, so I messed up a bit, but bear with me).

Lilly Marlene said:
" We don't spend money looking for illegals and deporting them."

According to your model, we would start doing that immediately following the amnesty, so I fail to follow the reasoning there.

I really don't know how to make it more clear, but I'll try. If we make illegal immigrants here now legal, we won't have to spend money deporting them since they'll be legal.

Of course we will spend more money patrolling the border, because we don't want more immigrants entering.

Lilly Marlene said:
"They would have a much better life."

The job which America's elected officials are hired to do is to take care of Americans first, just as the parent of children is obligated to take care of his or her children before taking care of the neighbor's children.
The presence in this country of 12 to 20 million more low-skilled workers creates stress and depresses wages for low skilled Americans and will continue to do so even after amnesty because of the numbers. That is not an acceptable way to take care of America first.

These 12-20 million low-skilled workers are already here! Making them legal will force companies to pay them minimum wage, which they aren't paying now. That means it would give Americans a chance to compete with them and wages would go up. Just think about it.

Lilly Marlene said:
"They won't strain the health care system anymore because they will be taxed and can get health insurance."

LOL, Yeah ... once you start getting taxed on your low skilled job you can easily afford health insurance, right? I guess tens of thousands of US citizens just don't want any health insurance then.

No, you can't easily afford health insurance on a low-skilled job. But it gives them the ability because they're legal. Also, some companies provide health insurance.

Lilly Marlene said:
" They will be paid the same as Americans and wouldn't be taking jobs away from them."

It's quite clear that they would be competing for the exact same jobs as many rural and/or mimimally-educated Americans who did NOT enter illegally.

Please recall for example that after the Swift Plant raids in December, lines of Americans citizens were queuing out onto the streets ...US citizens hoping to get those jobs.

Do you not understand that the illegal immigrants are taking American jobs because they don't get paid minimum wage, because they're illegal? If we make them legal Americans can get the jobs because they will be competing for the same wage.

Lilly Marlene said:
"After legalizing them, the president would explain why it was happening and state that any more illegals would be promptly deported. But the ones here now are already rooted into our economy."

That puppet would explain nothing to them.
Please acquaint yourself with his groveling exchanges last week among our southern neighbors.


I never mentioned George Bush. Do you think he would actually support legalizing all immigrants here now? I was thinking of a future president.

Lilly Marlene said:
Illegal immigrants are 'rooted into our economy' for the sole reason that this administration has allowed it as payback to their corporate buddies for contributions and as part of the globalist plan to weaken our national sovereignty.

Actually they are rooted into the economy because they sneak across the border and work for less than minimum wage.
 
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saggyjones

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He didn't say it about immigrants.
He said it about ILLEGAL immigrants.
;)
There is a B-I-G difference.

Are you saying illegal immigrants aren't people? Or that they just aren't as good people as citizens and legal immigrants?

When he said he's sick of the cries that 'they're just trying to feed the kids' is the reason i called him a dumb a-hole. They are not part of some conspiracy to take over the country, and they are just trying to feed the kids and find a better life for them. Even though they made a mistake coming here illegally, they are still people. I know an illegal family with a terminally ill daughter, and they are some of the nicest people I've ever met. All they're trying to do is get some good health care for the daughter. So until he either takes back or clarifies his remarks, I will stand by my original statement. I deleted it to comply with forum rules.
 
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