How To Make Abortion Unnecessary

[vyo476]

I'll be upfront - I'm not a huge fan of abortion. Because I'm a fan of granting people the rights they deserve, I can't fully discount it, because I'm not fully convinced that there shouldn't be a right to abortion. On the other hand, I'm not sure the unborn child that is aborted should be denied a right to live. It's a confusing argument.

So...rather than talk about whether or not abortion is right or wrong, I'd like to talk about how we could work towards making it unnecessary. I think we can all agree that abortions aren't positive things - that there are not positive motivators for getting an abortion, as it always centers on an unwanted pregnancy (unwanted for any number of reasons). Therefore, whether or not it ought to be allowed aside, I think we can all agree that lessening the procedure's necessity/appeal would be a good thing.

I was thinking that first we could try to come up with a comprehensive list of the reasons that people get abortions, and then from there work on how we'd go about making those reasons less prevalent. Anyone up for it?

 

[vyo476]

One other thing before the gates open - if possible, could we keep the "pro-life vs. pro-choice" argument out of this thread? We already have a number of others for that and I'd really like this one to be about hitting the root of the problem, not going in endless circles about whether or not abortion should be legal.

 

[9sublime]

People are always going to get pregnant when they dont want to, and some of those people are going to have circumstances where they don't want the baby so much that they have an abortion.

Wether or not it is a legal and safe abortion is a different matter.

 

[palerider]

People are always going to get pregnant when they dont want to, and some of those people are going to have circumstances where they don't want the baby so much that they have an abortion.

Wether or not it is a legal and safe abortion is a different matter.

So all of the "making abortion unnecessary" arguments that come from the pro choice side are in reality just empty slogans? A nice sound byte that has no real meaning and is not backed up by any real ideas?

 

[TruthAboveAll]

I'll be upfront - I'm not a huge fan of abortion. Because I'm a fan of granting people the rights they deserve, I can't fully discount it, because I'm not fully convinced that there shouldn't be a right to abortion. On the other hand, I'm not sure the unborn child that is aborted should be denied a right to live. It's a confusing argument.

So...rather than talk about whether or not abortion is right or wrong, I'd like to talk about how we could work towards making it unnecessary. I think we can all agree that abortions aren't positive things - that there are not positive motivators for getting an abortion, as it always centers on an unwanted pregnancy (unwanted for any number of reasons). Therefore, whether or not it ought to be allowed aside, I think we can all agree that lessening the procedure's necessity/appeal would be a good thing.

I was thinking that first we could try to come up with a comprehensive list of the reasons that people get abortions, and then from there work on how we'd go about making those reasons less prevalent. Anyone up for it?

Hmmm... Reasons for abortion:

1) I'm too young to have a baby.
2) If I have a baby now, it will interfere with my college plans.
3) The father of the baby doesn't want it, and insists this is the best thing.
4) I don't want to go through 9 months of pregnancy, give birth, and then give it up for adoption.
5) I don't want my parents to know.
6) I have AIDS (or similar disease) and don't want to risk passing it on to a baby.
7) I'm a drug addict, and don't want to pass that along. (A rather contradictory reason, conflicting responsibility with irresponsibility.)
8) My husband and I already have 2 (or 3, or 4, whatever) kids and simply can't handle another.
9) We didn't think I could get pregnant this soon after giving birth.
10) Fetus testing showed a likelihood that the baby would have birth defects.
11) There is a genetic disorder (such as Cystic Fibrosis) in my husband's and my genes combined that would make this a strong possibility.
12) I got pregnant, and my boyfriend/husband walked out.
13) I'm lesbian, and got pregnant so that my significant other and myself could have a baby. She walked out on me.
14) The pregnancy would ruin my figure.
15) A baby would interfere with my career plans.
16) The pregnancy resulted from a promiscuous episode.
17) The pregnancy resulted from a night I got too drunk.
18) The pregnancy was a result of rape.
19) The pregnancy was a result of incest.
20) I was diagnosed with a serious medical condition (previously undiagnosed heart condition, cancer, etc.) and carrying the baby to term would risk my life. I've other children and a husband to think about.
21) I was forced to have one by my parents.

Well, that's all the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[TruthAboveAll]

One other thing before the gates open - if possible, could we keep the "pro-life vs. pro-choice" argument out of this thread? We already have a number of others for that and I'd really like this one to be about hitting the root of the problem, not going in endless circles about whether or not abortion should be legal.

By the way, you are totally correct. The for and against arguments are abundant, without bringing it into this thread.

 

[invest07]

Vyo476
" I think we can all agree that lessening the procedure's necessity/appeal would be a good thing."

I understand your sentiments however you are idealistic and naive if you think we all agree that abortions should be reduced.

This is one of my hot button topics and as a matter of disclosure, I consider most abortion as murder.

I have debated this point endlessly with abortion proponents and have been shocked at some answers. There is a substantial number of those on the Left that think abortions are positive and more should be encouraged. The argument among these people centers on a few points:
1. Abortion is a form of population reduction.
2. Abortion rids our society of undesirables.
3. Abortion is a right, no different from voting, and is no one else's business.

The fact that abortion takes a life is a desirable consequence to many on the radical Left.

I commend your forum and intend to offer suggestions rather than condemnation.

1. Adoption should be encouraged more, perhaps with tax incentives. Out of all the possible solutions, this one has the most promise.
2. Education is useless. Anyone in the US who is pregnant knows exactly how they became pregnant. They know the risks and how to prevent pregnancy. An unwanted pregancny is the result of carelessness and not lack of education or access to birth control.
3. The negative side of abortion should be presented more. Did you know having an abortion increases a woman's chance for cancer? Did you know that most women have serious misgivings about their abortions, many lasting years?
4. Sex education in school should give equal time to abstinence.
5. Celebrities should do PSA's presenting abortion as a "last resort" scenario.
6. Woman, including celebrities, who regret their abortion decision should be encourgaged to speak out. This should be a topic for Oprah.
7. Abortions should not be presented as a casual medical procedure. Abortions should also be very expensive.
8. Counselling should include a presentation of the abortion from all sides, including the unborn and the father.
9. Some limited legal consideration should be extended to the father and to the parents of an underage girl.

Both of my kids are adopted. They are now productive members of our society but 20+ years ago they were unwanted fetuses in the womb. And they were at risk for abortion. They stood a chance of never having the opportunity to attend school or play in the band or go to dance class or play basketball.

I thank God every day for 2 unwed and scared teenage moms who decided not to abort. They made my kids lives possible and I thank them for that decision.

 

[heyjude]

Many women understand instinctively that giving a child up for adoption is not all it is cracked up to be. Anti-choice people never address this. I gave a child up and I do know exactly what I am talking about. And it is often a throughly coereced dicision. One that possibly, a woman who is pregnant is not emotionally competent to make. The grief and sense of loss that the mother may feel for the rest of her life is very real, and there is no cure for it. Death is final. You have to deal with it. Adoption is a different thing. And I think that open adoption doesn't solve those problems. It is taking slowly, rather than quickly, and may actually cause greater grief in the long run.

 

[heyjude]

Did you know that pregnancy can result in death of the mother? In paralysis, inability to ever speak again, to feed yourself, to use the toilet? Did you know that pregnancy can result in breaking the pelvic bones, and cause serious lifelong pain, limping, and painful intercourse? Did you know that delivering a baby may cause tearing that also results in painful intercourse? Did you know that pregnancy may cause urinary and rectal incontinance? For life? Did you know that pregnancy may cause heart disease, diabetes, weight gain that may never be lost? Do you care? I doubt it. Because I think you believe that the life of the unborn is more important than the life of the born. Or is it the life of a mere woman?

 

[heyjude]

BACK TO TOPIC: How to prevent unwanted pregnancies. All but barrier methods of bc can result in the death of a fertilized ovum. Most anti-choice people are opposed to those methods, and want them made illegal. That leave anstinance and barrier methods.

Of course abstinance is the best method. But followups of abstinance only teaching in schools show that the failure rate, (unwanted pregnancy ) is high. In fact it is the same as teaching bc only. Apparently abstinance is a method of bc that people are unwilling to embrace. Go figure.

Then there are barrier methods. Talk men, of any age, into using condoms 100% of the time. With a spermacide. So far, there are many more men willing to do so than ever before. Some religions are anti-condom though. Anything that impedes the sperm is prohibited. And many men and some women think they don't feel right.

Other barrier methods are disliked because they require generous applications of spermacides with their use. Sloppy. IUD's are prohibited by many religions because they allow an ovum to be fertilized, but keep it from being implanted. Abortion.

 

[TruthAboveAll]

Many women understand instinctively that giving a child up for adoption is not all it is cracked up to be. Anti-choice people never address this. I gave a child up and I do know exactly what I am talking about. And it is often a throughly coereced dicision. One that possibly, a woman who is pregnant is not emotionally competent to make. The grief and sense of loss that the mother may feel for the rest of her life is very real, and there is no cure for it. Death is final. You have to deal with it. Adoption is a different thing. And I think that open adoption doesn't solve those problems. It is taking slowly, rather than quickly, and may actually cause greater grief in the long run.

I guess you're responding to invest07's solution item of taking more steps to encourage adoption. Even if you can't recognize the tremendously positive thing you've done, my gratitude goes to you for allowing your child to live. I'm sorry for your sadness.

My step-sister gave her baby up. Coercion can cover a broad range of situations - from parents fully pushing it down a girls throat to a counselor helping a woman to search her heart. Her longings to have her baby back diminished over time, and today she has the occasional melancholy moment, wondering how her birth-daughter is doing, what her life is like, etc. Perhaps someday the girl will decide to connect with her.

Emotional competency? So you suggest that abortion is a viable solution in a state that you knowingly regard as vulnerable? Scary to think you're advocating a person who is scared and vulnerable to go have an abortion.

The grief and sense of loss are often very real to the woman who aborts her baby, too. Combined with that is often a tremendous sense of guilt. It is not over and done with quickly. How can it possibly be better to know that you provided your child with an opportunity to live, to have a decent life with parents who want and love them, than to deal with the unending grief and guilt from abortion?

Death is final. You have to deal with it.

So true. A decision that can never be undone, with nothing positive to salve your pain. It is final, and totally no answer in this discussion of identifying causes for abortion and seeking answers and alternatives.

 

[invest07]

Hey Jude

You made the comment that adoption is often a throughly coersced decision.
But the same can be said about abortion. And the abortion is final and stops a beating heart. Adoption does not. Adoption does not require anyone to die.

The best solution for any unwanted preganancy is to prevent it from happening. Every one in the US who is old enough to have sex knows how to prevent pregnancy. Unplanned pregnancies are not the result of lack of education or lack of access to birth control. Unplanned pregancies are the result of wreckless behavior on the part of the participants.

If there were a way to stop wreckless sexual behavior the answer to abortion would be easy. Wreckless sexual behavior has troubled the human race since the beginning of recorded history. Wreckless sexual behavior is here to stay and isn't going to stop anytime soon. Therefore unplanned pregnancies are also not going to stop.

It is my opinion that adoption is the best option, given the reality of human nature.

 

[palerider]

Did you know that pregnancy can result in death of the mother? In paralysis, inability to ever speak again, to feed yourself, to use the toilet? Did you know that pregnancy can result in breaking the pelvic bones, and cause serious lifelong pain, limping, and painful intercourse? Did you know that delivering a baby may cause tearing that also results in painful intercourse? Did you know that pregnancy may cause urinary and rectal incontinance? For life? Did you know that pregnancy may cause heart disease, diabetes, weight gain that may never be lost? Do you care? I doubt it. Because I think you believe that the life of the unborn is more important than the life of the born. Or is it the life of a mere woman?

Sure. At the rate of about 12 per 100,000 for serious lasting health issues. Far less chance of permanant injury or death than taking a shower or driving to the store for an ice cream.

 

[vyo476]

1) I'm too young to have a baby.
2) If I have a baby now, it will interfere with my college plans.
3) The father of the baby doesn't want it, and insists this is the best thing.
4) I don't want to go through 9 months of pregnancy, give birth, and then give it up for adoption.
5) I don't want my parents to know.
6) I have AIDS (or similar disease) and don't want to risk passing it on to a baby.
7) I'm a drug addict, and don't want to pass that along. (A rather contradictory reason, conflicting responsibility with irresponsibility.)
8) My husband and I already have 2 (or 3, or 4, whatever) kids and simply can't handle another.
9) We didn't think I could get pregnant this soon after giving birth.
10) Fetus testing showed a likelihood that the baby would have birth defects.
11) There is a genetic disorder (such as Cystic Fibrosis) in my husband's and my genes combined that would make this a strong possibility.
12) I got pregnant, and my boyfriend/husband walked out.
13) I'm lesbian, and got pregnant so that my significant other and myself could have a baby. She walked out on me.
14) The pregnancy would ruin my figure.
15) A baby would interfere with my career plans.
16) The pregnancy resulted from a promiscuous episode.
17) The pregnancy resulted from a night I got too drunk.
18) The pregnancy was a result of rape.
19) The pregnancy was a result of incest.
20) I was diagnosed with a serious medical condition (previously undiagnosed heart condition, cancer, etc.) and carrying the baby to term would risk my life. I've other children and a husband to think about.
21) I was forced to have one by my parents.

This list is a good start. Anyone care to add any?

 

[invest07]

As to the risk associated with pregnancy, there is also a health risk assoiciated with abortion.
I don't have a source to back this up but there is a greatly increased risk of breast cancer among women who have had an abortion.
Anyone who has a source on this, please let me know.