Is Utopia our Future?

[Irishone21]

If American were to become primarily cooperative, and were to begin working on some of the internal conflicts within her country, such as the ever-increasing dichotomy of the rich and the poor, and the negative effect of capitalism and competition which alienates individuals and corporations, then we could begin to set an example of true leadership, and the ethic principles that connote such leadership. If this were to happen, it may bring about a sense of harmony, for if we are trying to work together, not merely for the benefit of the elite, but for all people, in a quest to eradicate poverty, and equalize the economic status of the world, then our influence across seas will change and begin to restore a sense of value, creating a certain moral standard, that is not achieved by coercive means, but merely by the unity of the righteous over the perverse... This dream of a utopia is not an idea to be shunned, or brushed aside as chimerical, or idealistic, but rather as a possible end, and cure for both original sin and estrangement... I, for one, have something to lose if this were to happen, as Marx or Thomas Moore predicted, but nonetheless, understand that if this is in fact God's Will, then I must strive to achieve it and make it my will as well... Not that this applies a perpetual servile humanity, however, temporary servility in order to achieve this end, which is paradisal, may be necessary, and should not be dreaded, for the relief that a Kingdom on Earth will bring surpasses any former governmental institution. Giving Kingship to He that is God is in effect preserving the crowns of all of humanity.

 

[BigRob]

If American were to become primarily cooperative, and were to begin working on some of the internal conflicts within her country, such as the ever-increasing dichotomy of the rich and the poor, and the negative effect of capitalism and competition which alienates individuals and corporations, then we could begin to set an example of true leadership, and the ethic principles that connote such leadership. If this were to happen, it may bring about a sense of harmony, for if we are trying to work together, not merely for the benefit of the elite, but for all people, in a quest to eradicate poverty, and equalize the economic status of the world, then our influence across seas will change and begin to restore a sense of value, creating a certain moral standard, that is not achieved by coercive means, but merely by the unity of the righteous over the perverse... This dream of a utopia is not an idea to be shunned, or brushed aside as chimerical, or idealistic, but rather as a possible end, and cure for both original sin and estrangement... I, for one, have something to lose if this were to happen, as Marx or Thomas Moore predicted, but nonetheless, understand that if this is in fact God's Will, then I must strive to achieve it and make it my will as well... Not that this applies a perpetual servile humanity, however, temporary servility in order to achieve this end, which is paradisal, may be necessary, and should not be dreaded, for the relief that a Kingdom on Earth will bring surpasses any former governmental institution. Giving Kingship to He that is God is in effect preserving the crowns of all of humanity.

God made people in his image. People are incapable of a utopia. Therefore, using some form of religion to try to justify a utopia is stupid.

Also, in a secular society, saying something is God's will is not going to get you anywhere. I know you said dont say it, but the idea of utopia is just that, an idea, and will never be anything more.

 

[9sublime]

Why the bloody hell would the real elite who weild the real power in the world want to do any of that?

 

[Irishone21]

Well if we care, we will try to urge that... it is democracy, or at least I thought.

 

[BigRob]

Well if we care, we will try to urge that... it is democracy, or at least I thought.

How is Utopia democracy?

 

[9sublime]

Well you thought wrong. The rich aren't going to redistribute all the wealth just like that, and start helping to make a utopia. They're just fine with how life is going, unless theres more money to be made. You haven't planned this revolution at all, have you? You rely on all humans having the motivation and belief that they can create a human society, and its just not going to happen.

 

[Irishone21]

All I'm saying is, with media attention, we can appeal to the morality of the people. If enough people muster, as a result, fighting for the same cause, then the chance for progress is that much greater. The working class needs to realize that their wages are unfair, especially considering their jobs are harder. If someone were to speak of liberation, and "better days," for the working class, then they might unite and demand better wages to compensate for their needs. It doesn't have to be utopia, but all least it can head towards the direction of utopia. I'm not saying I have Revolution completely figured out yet, that is why I come to you, for other ideas, so we can unite, and change the world together. I care about the needs of others, which gives me faith that human nature does as well...

 

[BigRob]

All I'm saying is, with media attention, we can appeal to the morality of the people. If enough people muster, as a result, fighting for the same cause, then the chance for progress is that much greater. The working class needs to realize that their wages are unfair, especially considering their jobs are harder. If someone were to speak of liberation, and "better days," for the working class, then they might unite and demand better wages to compensate for their needs. It doesn't have to be utopia, but all least it can head towards the direction of utopia. I'm not saying I have Revolution completely figured out yet, that is why I come to you, for other ideas, so we can unite, and change the world together. I care about the needs of others, which gives me faith that human nature does as well...

I don't think you can really claim that middle class people work harder. Sure they might have a more physically demanding job, but look at this from the point of view of a typical upper middle class person.

Went to high school, got good grades, got into a good college, worked hard, got good grades (not that easy to do at really good schools), got into grad school or medschool or just entered the work force. Take a CEO for example , he makes pretty major decisions all the time, that his education has prepared him for, and that the person working on the factory floor would most likely never be able to fully understand or make that decision.

You can argue that the lower class have harder jobs, however to get the jobs that the upper middle and upper class people have it is no cake walk either and takes alot of hard work and dedication, and the payoff is worth it in the end, alot of people would rather not make the sacrifice to get to this payout and therefore I do not really have all that much sympathy for someone who screwed around in school and has a deadend job and is going nowhere, it is really their own fault.

 

[9sublime]

Well if you could get all the lower class to support your cause all at once, you might have a fighting chance. But to be honest, anyone richer than them is going to fight it (middle class sometimes & upper class especially), and you would need a miracle to get everyone together.

 

[Irishone21]

Just because someone lost his chance to excell at school shouldn't mean that he has to live a poverty stricten life... everyone deserves a certain amount, regardless of whether they work or not... that is what we are here for, to share, to give, and to Love... If you have a good position, don't let it embitter you... Yeah, people who work hard, and get good jobs, they deserve extra pay... but as for those who would rather not put in the effort, for those who choose to find the pleasures in life by other means outside of the workforce...they deserve the freedom to stay home, without risking utter poverty. For those who are less inclined to join the competitiveness of the capitalist world should still be provided for, they deserve the time to spend with their families... I speak for the people, for their misery has silenced and enslaved them.