Ron Paul was the trur leader of the Tea Party movement..

[GenSeneca]

I think some trade embargoes are good. For instance with Cuba or Iran. But, I also understand that this can be a slippery slope.

The US government has no business telling a privately owned US company who it can and cannot do business with. If the reasoning behind a trade embargo is that we aren't on friendly terms with that country, then we should encourage an expansion in trade with that country, not a reduction or halt in trade.

Trade is win-win. If I give a Cuban cigar roller $25 for a box of cuban cigars, I'm happy and he's happy. Government steps in and says, "Hold it right there happy US consumer, we don't like that guys government so we're putting a stop to this win-win business relationship by erecting a trade embargo." So now I lose, my Cuban supplier loses, and all so our respective governments can pout like spoiled children. That is no bueno.

 

[Texas_tea]

The US government has no business telling a privately owned US company who it can and cannot do business with. If the reasoning behind a trade embargo is that we aren't on friendly terms with that country, then we should encourage an expansion in trade with that country, not a reduction or halt in trade.

Trade is win-win. If I give a Cuban cigar roller $25 for a box of cuban cigars, I'm happy and he's happy. Government steps in and says, "Hold it right there happy US consumer, we don't like that guys government so we're putting a stop to this win-win business relationship by erecting a trade embargo." So now I lose, my Cuban supplier loses, and all so our respective governments can pout like spoiled children. That is no bueno.

Wait a minute .... would the "cuban supplier" really be the cuban government in that communist country?

And, what about the all the Americans that had businesses over there when Castro took over loosing everything to the Communist government?

Shouldn't Cuba be held responsible for that?

 

[GenSeneca]

Wait a minute .... would the "cuban supplier" really be the cuban government in that communist country?

And, what about the all the Americans that had businesses over there when Castro took over loosing everything to the Communist government?

Shouldn't Cuba be held responsible for that?

How does a trade embargo = holding the government responsible?
It just doesn't make sense to me that you would cut off your nose to spite your face... It sucks that the commies took over and many people lost everything but why should Americans also be punished by being barred from doing business there? If I became a millionaire through trade with Communist Cuba, it would be a great benefit not only to myself, my family and friends but also to all the other Americans with whom I did business. Instead not only are the Cuban people worse off but so too are all those Americans that could have benefited if not for the embargo.

 

[Texas_tea]

How does a trade embargo = holding the government responsible?
It just doesn't make sense to me that you would cut off your nose to spite your face... It sucks that the commies took over and many people lost everything but why should Americans also be punished by being barred from doing business there? If I became a millionaire through trade with Communist Cuba, it would be a great benefit not only to myself, my family and friends but also to all the other Americans with whom I did business. Instead not only are the Cuban people worse off but so too are all those Americans that could have benefited if not for the embargo.

I see your point, but if the communist government owns everything, I don't see how that is going to help the Cuban people anyway.

 

[GenSeneca]

I see your point, but if the communist government owns everything, I don't see how that is going to help the Cuban people anyway.

Perhaps it's old fashioned but I've always thought it was the job of the US government to protect the the rights of the American people, not to help the people of Cuba (or other countries).

 

[Texas_tea]

Perhaps it's old fashioned but I've always thought it was the job of the US government to protect the the rights of the American people, not to help the people of Cuba (or other countries).

Well, I agree but, you stated "Instead not only are the Cuban people worse off but so too are all those Americans that could have benefited if not for the embargo."

My point was the Cuban people would be worse off regardless if America traded with Cuba. They live in poverty under a repressive Communist government.

 

[GenSeneca]

Well, I agree but, you stated "Instead not only are the Cuban people worse off but so too are all those Americans that could have benefited if not for the embargo."

My point was the Cuban people would be worse off regardless if America traded with Cuba. They live in poverty under a repressive Communist government.

The Cuban people would be better off through trade, if not through free trade then through black market trading. Try as they might, the commies never could stop the black market. Additionally... An embargo would do nothing to punish the commies, it wouldn't improve the lives of cubans, but it would (and has) negatively impacted the lives of Americans. So, for what reason would you, or anyone else, support such a policy?

 

[Texas_tea]

The Cuban people would be better off through trade, if not through free trade then through black market trading. Try as they might, the commies never could stop the black market. Additionally... An embargo would do nothing to punish the commies, it wouldn't improve the lives of cubans, but it would (and has) negatively impacted the lives of Americans. So, for what reason would you, or anyone else, support such a policy?

Maybe so ....

 

[GenSeneca]

Maybe so ....

Does this mean you may reconsider your position on trade embargoes? We could talk about Iran... In fact, I think we should start smuggling black market US goods into Iran and flood the streets with things like Penthouse magazines and Eminem CD's. Trade is a much more powerful, peaceful, and lasting way to win over foreign populations than threatening to level their cities with our overwhelming military power.

 

[Texas_tea]

Does this mean you may reconsider your position on trade embargoes? We could talk about Iran... In fact, I think we should start smuggling black market US goods into Iran and flood the streets with things like Penthouse magazines and Eminem CD's. Trade is a much more powerful, peaceful, and lasting way to win over foreign populations than threatening to level their cities with our overwhelming military power.

I am always reconsidering my position. Especially on topics I am still learning about.

I think that's a great idea to flood the streets of Iran with "illegal" contraband. Perhaps we could send them pulled pork sandwiches from the BBQ joints in Memphis.

However, I do fear that allowing them to develop a nuclear bomb to use against Israel or any other infidel they see fit may be a catastrophic mistake.

 

[GenSeneca]

I am always reconsidering my position. Especially on topics I am still learning about.

I think that's a great idea to flood the streets of Iran with "illegal" contraband. Perhaps we could send them pulled pork sandwiches from the BBQ joints in Memphis.

However, I do fear that allowing them to develop a nuclear bomb to use against Israel or any other infidel they see fit may be a catastrophic mistake.

My history is a little rusty but I think it was general Pershing who had to the fight Muslim pirates on the barbary coast. No PC BS, he knew they believed pigs were unclean and merely touching a pig would bar them being able to enter their heaven. So when he captured a ship full of Muslim pirates, he took them to shore, covered them in pigs blood and entrails and then proceeded to execute all but one. He let that last one go so he could tell the others about what had happened. It was 42 years before we heard from them again.

As for nukes in Iran... If it's a credible (NOT like Iraq) threat to America (not simply American "interests" which is used as a catch-all to mean whatever the hell we want) then I'm 100% in favor of using overwhelming force to eliminate the threat - then leave (not hang around to nation build).

 

[Texas_tea]

My history is a little rusty but I think it was general Pershing who had to the fight Muslim pirates on the barbary coast. No PC BS, he knew they believed pigs were unclean and merely touching a pig would bar them being able to enter their heaven. So when he captured a ship full of Muslim pirates, he took them to shore, covered them in pigs blood and entrails and then proceeded to execute all but one. He let that last one go so he could tell the others about what had happened. It was 42 years before we heard from them again.

As for nukes in Iran... If it's a credible (NOT like Iraq) threat to America (not simply American "interests" which is used as a catch-all to mean whatever the hell we want) then I'm 100% in favor of using overwhelming force to eliminate the threat - then leave (not hang around to nation build).

I am against nation building as well. I do believe that Iran with a nuclear weapon is a bad thing.

 

[GenSeneca]

I am against nation building as well. I do believe that Iran with a nuclear weapon is a bad thing.

Me too but if it's not a threat to the US, then we have no business deploying military assets to deal with the issue.

 

[Texas_tea]

Me too but if it's not a threat to the US, then we have no business deploying military assets to deal with the issue.

It may not be a direct threat to the US at the moment but, starting a nuclear world conflict is certainly a threat to the US.

 

[GenSeneca]

It may not be a direct threat to the US at the moment but, starting a nuclear world conflict is certainly a threat to the US.

So we should commit US resources for something that might, one day, be a threat to the US? Sorry, I can't go along with that. If they produce a nuke and threaten to use it on us, or threaten that they are creating one to use on us, then sure. Till then, we should stick to flooding their streets with western culture and winning over their youth with our pornography and illicit lyrics - At least then Leftists would be helping to prevent a war.