The Tea Party will change America back to the days of Thomas Jefferson

[dogtowner]

"It is clear that President Obama is intent on not only continuing the failed war on poverty but expanding and growing the size of the welfare state. President Obama’s 2011 budget will increase spending on welfare programs by 42 percent over President Bush’s last year in office. Total spending on the welfare state (including state spending) will rise to $953 billion in 2011. "

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Re...Increases-Welfare-Spending-to-Historic-Levels

There you go.

Now you provide links for the last ten times I asked for one or indicated that you had said something that was unsupported.

I'll make some popcorn, this could take a while.

 

[Openmind]

"It is clear that President Obama is intent on not only continuing the failed war on poverty but expanding and growing the size of the welfare state. President Obama’s 2011 budget will increase spending on welfare programs by 42 percent over President Bush’s last year in office. Total spending on the welfare state (including state spending) will rise to $953 billion in 2011. "

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Re...Increases-Welfare-Spending-to-Historic-Levels

There you go.

Now you provide links for the last ten times I asked for one or indicated that you had said something that was unsupported.

I provide links as often, or more often than you do. Whether or not you want to take them seriously is your problem.
Just like I do not take much of what heritage org says seriously, as they have such a strong right bias.

 

[Dr.Who]

I provide links as often, or more often than you do. Whether or not you want to take them seriously is your problem.
Just like I do not take much of what heritage org says seriously, as they have such a strong right bias.

It is a logical fallacy to discount the message based on who says it. The way to know if a thing is true is to evaluate the actual message on its own merits.

Choosing this thread just because it is the one e are on and going back five pages just because that seems like it would be far enough - you have provided zero links and I have provided 7. This is not just a non-representative sample. I cannot recall you ever providing a link to support a statistic or fact. Can you show us one?

 

[dogtowner]

It is a logical fallacy to discount the message based on who says it. The way to know if a thing is true is to evaluate the actual message on its own merits.

I think Sgt Joe Friday said it best "just the facts ma'am".

 

[Openmind]

It is a logical fallacy to discount the message based on who says it. The way to know if a thing is true is to evaluate the actual message on its own merits.

I do hope you follow your own advice. based on some of your posts, you actually might have the integrity this would require.

However, I do not believe many of the Obama haters do.

too many just jump on ANYTHING that might be disparaging or insulting to our President an/or to lobs.

This forum, at times, looks like a conversation between two or three brainless, bullying teenagers, which does not promote intelligent or interesting discussion of any kind.

So, rather than answering stupidities and gratuitous bashing, I prefer to let it go and move to more interesting sites, where people of various ideologies actually seem interested in learning and sharing, rather than spewing partisan propaganda and insulting "jokes."

 

[dogtowner]

I do hope you follow your own advice. based on some of your posts, you actually might have the integrity this would require.

However, I do not believe many of the Obama haters do.

too many just jump on ANYTHING that might be disparaging or insulting to our President an/or to lobs.

This forum, at times, looks like a conversation between two or three brainless, bullying teenagers, which does not promote intelligent or interesting discussion of any kind.

So, rather than answering stupidities and gratuitous bashing, I prefer to let it go and move to more interesting sites, where people of various ideologies actually seem interested in learning and sharing, rather than spewing partisan propaganda and insulting "jokes."

sounds suspiciously like 'if you cant take the heat...'

 

[Openmind]

sounds suspiciously like 'if you cant take the heat...'

yes. . .In this case, it's a little more like "if you can't take the crap. . . "

But, whatever you say.

someone has to be the adult in kindergarten . .

So, you guys enjoy your one way "conversation!"

 

[Dr.Who]

I do hope you follow your own advice. based on some of your posts, you actually might have the integrity this would require.

However, I do not believe many of the Obama haters do.

too many just jump on ANYTHING that might be disparaging or insulting to our President an/or to lobs.

This forum, at times, looks like a conversation between two or three brainless, bullying teenagers, which does not promote intelligent or interesting discussion of any kind.

So, rather than answering stupidities and gratuitous bashing, I prefer to let it go and move to more interesting sites, where people of various ideologies actually seem interested in learning and sharing, rather than spewing partisan propaganda and insulting "jokes."

This site has the distinct advantage that the influence of one or two people can shape the very feel and tone of the whole site.

You could rise above the pettiness and be a force for reasoned discussion. You could do that anywhere but here your influence has the potential to change the spirit of the entire site and debate. I have been here for a long time and the site has had several flavors over that time. Right now we need progressives that can debate logically. Lets not forget that much of the problems coming from the other side are the result of the dynamic between both sides. Stick around and be your best.

 

[dogtowner]

yes. . .In this case, it's a little more like "if you can't take the crap. . . "

But, whatever you say.

someone has to be the adult in kindergarten . .

So, you guys enjoy your one way "conversation!"

hmmm
I listen but when I hear nonsense I won't always allow it to slide.
The hope for Open is that perhaps if she is required to research her parroted talking points she might come to learn you can't always believe what the HuffPo says.

 

[Alias]

I do hope you follow your own advice. based on some of your posts, you actually might have the integrity this would require.

However, I do not believe many of the Obama haters do.

too many just jump on ANYTHING that might be disparaging or insulting to our President an/or to lobs.

This forum, at times, looks like a conversation between two or three brainless, bullying teenagers, which does not promote intelligent or interesting discussion of any kind.

So, rather than answering stupidities and gratuitous bashing, I prefer to let it go and move to more interesting sites, where people of various ideologies actually seem interested in learning and sharing, rather than spewing partisan propaganda and insulting "jokes."

Don't take it so personal. The left wanted to defeat Bush and the right wants to defeat Obama. Somehow the left has this weird idea that they are entitled to spew insults and ridicule while being immune from the same tossed their way. Doesn't work like that. Obama has been insulting American citizens for years. Remember "clinging to our bibles and guns"..... Deal with it.

 

[Dr.Who]

Don't take it so personal. The left wanted to defeat Bush and the right wants to defeat Obama. Somehow the left has this weird idea that they are entitled to spew insults and ridicule while being immune from the same tossed their way. Doesn't work like that. Obama has been insulting American citizens for years. Remember "clinging to our bibles and guns"..... Deal with it.

I think Openmind's comment is best viewed not as a matter or right versus left but by looking at what she has said and what specific individuals have said to her.

She is correct that she has not been treated with respect and in a mature way all the time.

of course the situation is just not as simple as that is it?

 

[dogtowner]

She is correct that she has not been treated with respect and in a mature way all the time.

respect is earned where I com from and she had failed to do so IMO. but I'm open to any change in that regard.

for example

she could admit that she was wrong when she stated that premiums went down in countries with socialized medicine and then make a perhaps provable point that there is some causation effect on overall medical costs and socialized medicine.

I know I am not right 100% of the time and I'll admit it when shown to be so. Such an admission earns a measure of respect.

 

[Dr.Who]

respect is earned where I com from and she had failed to do so IMO. but I'm open to any change in that regard.

for example

she could admit that she was wrong when she stated that premiums went down in countries with socialized medicine and then make a perhaps provable point that there is some causation effect on overall medical costs and socialized medicine.

I know I am not right 100% of the time and I'll admit it when shown to be so. Such an admission earns a measure of respect.

I agree that it is earned and that there are reasons she has not been given it.

I also thin that failing to give it can be as much a reflection on the person who does not give as on the one who has not earned it.

One thing in her favor, she has made better efforts than many to be polite. Sure she fails at times as do we all.

On the other hand it is difficult to debate with her for a variety of reasons and that can be maddening.

 

[Openmind]

This site has the distinct advantage that the influence of one or two people can shape the very feel and tone of the whole site.

You could rise above the pettiness and be a force for reasoned discussion. You could do that anywhere but here your influence has the potential to change the spirit of the entire site and debate. I have been here for a long time and the site has had several flavors over that time. Right now we need progressives that can debate logically. Lets not forget that much of the problems coming from the other side are the result of the dynamic between both sides. Stick around and be your best.

First, let me say that I have no intention of leaving this forum. I merely plan on letting dumb comments and thread that have no meaning and no reason to exist, except for "bashing Obama and the Left" to die out when you guys finally understand how ridiculous and non-productive this constant bashing is. Bullying and destructive generalized comments may be your "cup of tea" (although, in your specific case, I do not believe you entirely buy in to that non-sense), but they are not mine.

"My best" would never please any of you anyway. . .because my best is to me myself, to speak my conscience, to point out the innacuracies and the propaganda that is rampant in extremist talk.

I have read the "comments" about my not be deserving of "respect!"
Well, for some people (and you know whom I'm speaking of), I would NEVER be "deserving of respect" unless I kiss their butt and agree with their point of view. . . .which I couldn't do without losing MY SELF-RESPECT, which . . .I'm sure you at least will understand this. . . is a LOT more important than earning someone else's respect.

I have to say that, although I do not agree with much of what YOU and BOB say, and even LESS about what Pandora says, I do respect you enough to take SOME of your criticisms at heart. . .but I really do not care about what "some" of the others think or say!

And. . .about being "my best," have you ever heard to expression: "it's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys?"

Anyway, I am around. Meaner, smarter (and dumber) people have tried to get rid of me through insults, belittleling remarks, intimidations, and bullying. . .and have not succeeded.

I will be here, as long as I wish to be. And WHEN I see an INTERESTING debate that has some potential of developing in an honest, respecful discussion, I will join in.

But. . .I rather you guys enjoy your little "hatred is so much fun" threads in small circles. I'm sure that the smartests among you do know, deep inside, when you are being ridiculous, and for the dumbest among you. . .who cares if stupidity makes them feel better. . .it's all in good fun!

 

[Alias]

First, let me say that I have no intention of leaving this forum. I merely plan on letting dumb comments and thread that have no meaning and no reason to exist, except for "bashing Obama and the Left" to die out when you guys finally understand how ridiculous and non-productive this constant bashing is. Bullying and destructive generalized comments may be your "cup of tea" (although, in your specific case, I do not believe you entirely buy in to that non-sense), but they are not mine.

"My best" would never please any of you anyway. . .because my best is to me myself, to speak my conscience, to point out the innacuracies and the propaganda that is rampant in extremist talk.

I have read the "comments" about my not be deserving of "respect!"
Well, for some people (and you know whom I'm speaking of), I would NEVER be "deserving of respect" unless I kiss their butt and agree with their point of view. . . .which I couldn't do without losing MY SELF-RESPECT, which . . .I'm sure you at least will understand this. . . is a LOT more important than earning someone else's respect.

I have to say that, although I do not agree with much of what YOU and BOB say, and even LESS about what Pandora says, I do respect you enough to take SOME of your criticisms at heart. . .but I really do not care about what "some" of the others think or say!

And. . .about being "my best," have you ever heard to expression: "it's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys?"

Anyway, I am around. Meaner, smarter (and dumber) people have tried to get rid of me through insults, belittleling remarks, intimidations, and bullying. . .and have not succeeded.

I will be here, as long as I wish to be. And WHEN I see an INTERESTING debate that has some potential of developing in an honest, respecful discussion, I will join in.

But. . .I rather you guys enjoy your little "hatred is so much fun" threads in small circles. I'm sure that the smartests among you do know, deep inside, when you are being ridiculous, and for the dumbest among you. . .who cares if stupidity makes them feel better. . .it's all in good fun!

Obama has insulted a large section of the American people from day one. He is purposely dividing us according to class and that is un-American and beneath the dignity of his office. He has failed and needs to be removed as soon as possible. Obama is deliberately abusing his power and influence.