Getting Tired of Hearing About "Undecided" (Dense) Voters?

[Cruella]

Does Johnny Tremain just like to say anything to get a reaction? It sure seems that way. Most people who are undecided are that way because the options are terrible. Neither party stands for what it used to stand for decades ago, neither truly represents most Americans, which is why fringe parties like the Tea Party and OWS have sprouted- because more and more people do not identify with the crap coming from the TV.

Now, why don't all those undecided people get off their butt and look into other options? Because that means new territory, and that's risky, and people like sticking to what they know. Like battered housewives, they'll stick to the abuse because at least they understand it.

"WHO could be so damn brain-dead this election cycle to have actually believed the B.S. coming out of politics today?"
Now that's a good question. The stupid and feeble minded?

It takes a long time to understand politics, all the players and how they play the game.

 

[Cruella]

The big issues our presidents can address, well, neither of them are really doing anything about it. Neither Romney or Obama are going to stop the economic system we have that's put us where we are.

That's because of our bloated bureaucracy and contradicting laws and regulations piled one on top of the other.

 

[Pandora]

Crime is always a problem- has been since day #1- but no one is going to solve that one until they solve the root of what causes crime in the first place- which is many factors. If you're born into a poor family with little hope of anything, crime is going to be pretty irresistible.

This is absolute *********! I was born into a very poor family. My mother’s dinner was the scraps her kids didn’t eat. I knew very few in my area that were even close to as poor as we were and I never found crime irresistible. Lots of people grew up dirt poor and did not find crime irresistible. It’s a matter of personal character. There are very rich people who steal for the fun of it just like there are poor who steal for the fun of it.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

This is absolute *********! I was born into a very poor family. My mother’s dinner was the scraps her kids didn’t eat. I knew very few in my area that were even close to as poor as we were and I never found crime irresistible. Lots of people grew up dirt poor and did not find crime irresistible. It’s a matter of personal character. There are very rich people who steal for the fun of it just like there are poor who steal for the fun of it.

+1

 

[Centrehalf]

This is absolute *********! I was born into a very poor family. My mother’s dinner was the scraps her kids didn’t eat. I knew very few in my area that were even close to as poor as we were and I never found crime irresistible. Lots of people grew up dirt poor and did not find crime irresistible. It’s a matter of personal character. There are very rich people who steal for the fun of it just like there are poor who steal for the fun of it.

Hear Hear! Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[bobbyjimmy]

This is absolute *********! I was born into a very poor family. My mother’s dinner was the scraps her kids didn’t eat. I knew very few in my area that were even close to as poor as we were and I never found crime irresistible. Lots of people grew up dirt poor and did not find crime irresistible. It’s a matter of personal character. There are very rich people who steal for the fun of it just like there are poor who steal for the fun of it.

It's a matter of many factors- it's not as simple as black and white. When you're poor, certainly, stealing is a temptation- even your mother, I'm sure, she was tempted. Now, other factors come into play as to how you (or your mother) will turn out. If your mom had parents that instilled strong values into her and gave her the concept of a greater good that superseded her immediate needs, then she was able to fight temptation because she believed in something greater. But if her parents didn't have those values, because no one ever taught THEM about it, then she probably would have started stealing. Since stealing is the easier option with the most obvious immediate benefits, it's the one most people in that situation are going to do. Some might realize the risks aren't worth it and stop, others may never start, and others might find that the risks ARE worth it and they keep going until they're caught (or, in the case of Wall Street, caught and not punished.)

"Personal Character" is a vague way of talking about things that actually have specific beginnings. It can be a long string of generations in a family that has always acted a certain way- and unless you are going to claim that you choose where you're born, it's not really something an individual can control. It's our responsibility to help each other become better citizens, rather than just pointing fingers because we happened to be lucky enough to have good parents.

So solving the issue of crime isn't just saying "those people over there don't have personal character so let's throw them in jail." I'm not saying abolish jails, I'm saying that jails are a temporary stop-gap, not a long-term solution. Advocating for more jails or bigger jails without thinking about the deeper roots of this problem is just ignorant, but that's exactly what most politicians do- they just argue over the prison system rather than focusing on things like educating people that will result in lower crime in the long term.

 

[Cruella]

So solving the issue of crime isn't just saying "those people over there don't have personal character so let's throw them in jail." I'm not saying abolish jails, I'm saying that jails are a temporary stop-gap, not a long-term solution. Advocating for more jails or bigger jails without thinking about the deeper roots of this problem is just ignorant, but that's exactly what most politicians do- they just argue over the prison system rather than focusing on things like educating people that will result in lower crime in the long term.

I'm confused, are you saying that it's the politicians who are responsible for education in order to reduce crime?

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Some take the high road--no matter what.
Some take the low road--no matter what.

It's really as simple as that.

Eons ago, religions used to try and steer people in this direction--in order to provide a body of people living communally with some semblance of "order".

 

[Cruella]

Eons ago, religions used to try and steer people in this direction--in order to provide a body of people living communally with some semblance of "order".

They still do. (except for the ones infiltrated by the commies and radicals). Unfortunately, religion is considered a bad thing by the left.

 

[bobbyjimmy]

I'm confused, are you saying that it's the politicians who are responsible for education in order to reduce crime?

We're all responsible in our own way. They're responsible because we give them the power to make big sweeping laws that can affect a lot of people. And also, because people listen to them as leaders, they're responsible for the values they promote, one of which should be focusing more on education for everyone. And you can look at history and current statistics- societies that place education high on their priority do result in having much less crime. They may not be perfect, but because they have a more educated population, there's less people turning to that sort of behavior.

J.Tremain's view is that no matter what you do, some people are just "born bad". That's fine to believe, but it doesn't really leave us anywhere in terms of fixing society- might as well make it a free-for-all and we can all decide who the bad guy is for ourselves. Thankfully, most people realize this isn't a very wise way to go, they just disagree on the solutions.

 

[Cruella]

I happen to believe some people are born evil. I've seen people given every opportunity and good parents who turn out bad, it happens.

Anybody can get an education today, if they want it. Long before the computer came along, most people had access to a library, free of charge. We have a sick society. Morality and respecct is what is missing.

 

[Centrehalf]

We're all responsible in our own way. They're responsible because we give them the power to make big sweeping laws that can affect a lot of people. And also, because people listen to them as leaders, they're responsible for the values they promote, one of which should be focusing more on education for everyone. And you can look at history and current statistics- societies that place education high on their priority do result in having much less crime. They may not be perfect, but because they have a more educated population, there's less people turning to that sort of behavior.

J.Tremain's view is that no matter what you do, some people are just "born bad". That's fine to believe, but it doesn't really leave us anywhere in terms of fixing society- might as well make it a free-for-all and we can all decide who the bad guy is for ourselves. Thankfully, most people realize this isn't a very wise way to go, they just disagree on the solutions.

Some people are born bad. America does place a priority on education. Most people don't think WWMRD?(what would my representative do?)

As far as Johnny Tremain, what's the deal? You're new here and you picked out a regular to screw with? Why don't you give it a week before you start picking fights. I think after a week of reading the hypocrisy and outright stupidity of some of the regular posters JT is going to drop off of your radar. Trust me, I know.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Some people are born bad. America does place a priority on education. Most people don't think WWMRD?(what would my representative do?)

As far as Johnny Tremain, what's the deal? You're new here and you picked out a regular to screw with? Why don't you give it a week before you start picking fights. I think after a week of reading the hypocrisy and outright stupidity of some of the regular posters JT is going to drop off of your radar. Trust me, I know.

Well, I am relatively new, since June 14, 2012.
Over 1,500 posts. A few likes. Not exactly a neophyte.
I don't ever consider qwerty keyboard conversations as a "fight".
I have been in REAL fights--bullets flying and the whole nine yards (Tet Offensive, Jan. 1968).
Fundamental misunderstanding of the medium--if you think that way.
I am well over 60--been around the block a great many times.

BTW--which regular did I "pick out" to screw with?

 

[bobbyjimmy]

I don't mean to pick on him, he's just saying such ridiculous things it's hard to believe he means it- sounds like he just wants to get people's goat. I guess he's being sincere, but I'm not sure I get the usefulness of his posts- they don't encourage discussion.

If you guys think people are just born bad, that's fine. But then the logical consequences of that belief are pretty nuts- if you're just "bad" then that means there's no hope, there's no options to take or anything. So what does society do with you? And is there "really bad" "bad" and "sorta bad" ? Who gets to make the decisions of what bad is? I'm sure my definition of bad differs from yours. Sure, killing another person, that's bad. Are you bad if you kill another person, but you happen to be a soldier in a war? You're still killing. We could go on and on.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

I don't mean to pick on him, he's just saying such ridiculous things it's hard to believe he means it- sounds like he just wants to get people's goat. I guess he's being sincere, but I'm not sure I get the usefulness of his posts- they don't encourage discussion.

If you guys think people are just born bad, that's fine. But then the logical consequences of that belief are pretty nuts- if you're just "bad" then that means there's no hope, there's no options to take or anything. So what does society do with you? And is there "really bad" "bad" and "sorta bad" ? Who gets to make the decisions of what bad is? I'm sure my definition of bad differs from yours. Sure, killing another person, that's bad. Are you bad if you kill another person, but you happen to be a soldier in a war? You're still killing. We could go on and on.

Oops--I guess I followed the thread incorrectly.
Mea Culpa.
I am entitled to senior moments--an excuse that is available to the somewhat elderly.