Getting Tired of Hearing About "Undecided" (Dense) Voters?

[Johnny Tremain]

I don't mean to pick on him, he's just saying such ridiculous things it's hard to believe he means it- sounds like he just wants to get people's goat. I guess he's being sincere, but I'm not sure I get the usefulness of his posts- they don't encourage discussion.
If you guys think people are just born bad, that's fine. But then the logical consequences of that belief are pretty nuts- if you're just "bad" then that means there's no hope, there's no options to take or anything. So what does society do with you? And is there "really bad" "bad" and "sorta bad" ? Who gets to make the decisions of what bad is? I'm sure my definition of bad differs from yours. Sure, killing another person, that's bad. Are you bad if you kill another person, but you happen to be a soldier in a war? You're still killing. We could go on and on.

Sometimes--you try to offer "what you can" to perhaps help others avoid traps and misconceptions you may have already suffered through. This is not done in any other way than to "help" others. It is "advice" worth precisely what you pay for it.

People are probably not born bad--but they do identify themselves early on in life.
Liberalism wants to keep giving them chances until they rape and murder a child, or your wife or daughter or son or Mom and dad.
Conservatives say--once identified--remove the violent from society.
Where you sequester them is the dilemma and how.
BUT--they MUST be sequestered or the carnage and horror--will continue.

It is why we had 3-time-loser laws--and should have them now.

 

[Centrehalf]

Oops--I guess I followed the thread incorrectly.
Mea Culpa.
I am entitled to senior moments--an excuse that is available to the somewhat elderly.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Perhaps it is the medications. The medications. The medications....

 

[Centrehalf]

I don't mean to pick on him, he's just saying such ridiculous things it's hard to believe he means it- sounds like he just wants to get people's goat. I guess he's being sincere, but I'm not sure I get the usefulness of his posts- they don't encourage discussion.

If you guys think people are just born bad, that's fine. But then the logical consequences of that belief are pretty nuts- if you're just "bad" then that means there's no hope, there's no options to take or anything. So what does society do with you? And is there "really bad" "bad" and "sorta bad" ? Who gets to make the decisions of what bad is? I'm sure my definition of bad differs from yours. Sure, killing another person, that's bad. Are you bad if you kill another person, but you happen to be a soldier in a war? You're still killing. We could go on and on.

Are you really comparing a soldier to some nutjob on the street who kills? I've read every single one of your 8 posts so far and to me you seem to be a guy who wants it both ways. You talk about a lot of different potential causes for something, never taking a hard stance, but then call out someone else for taking a stance. You know what Jello is to me? Jello. That's all it will ever be.

 

[Centrehalf]

Perhaps it is the medications. The medications. The medications....

Don't worry, the AARP and Obama have your back.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Don't worry, the AARP and Obama have your back.

The AARP is a clever group of insurance companies--who decided decades ago to offer some printed "advice" on where to get 10% off on a smorgasbord between 2pm and 5pm around the country--and the same Best Western Discount on a filthy room they offer anyone else.

I despise them--and get at least on set of plasti-coated double-cards with my *name* embossed on them. Boy Howdy!

They get people to PAY THEM to send them insurance offers in the form of junk mail. Brilliant idea.

Obama is a shill for a foreign power--to be discovered in the future.
He will flee the country after he loses in November, and sell everything he knows to the highest bidder.

 

[bobbyjimmy]

Are you really comparing a soldier to some nutjob on the street who kills? I've read every single one of your 8 posts so far and to me you seem to be a guy who wants it both ways. You talk about a lot of different potential causes for something, never taking a hard stance, but then call out someone else for taking a stance. You know what Jello is to me? Jello. That's all it will ever be.

I definitely have hard stances on things that are black and white. The fact that greed-driven corporations basically own both major parties with their lobbyists, that's a pretty black-and-white issue. I want those guys out, I want people to stop accepting that they are part of the political landscape and fight back with their wallets and votes (the only two weapons people have, other than actual weapons.)

When it comes to assigning blame for how our society is shaped, that's not a black and white issue. Just attaching myself to an opinion and getting all worked up about it isn't going to get us anywhere. With crime, I'm just trying to define our terms- too often people don't bother and then everyone just ends up chanting things without clearly explaining what they mean. I personally don't think any person should be killing any other person- that's morally reprehensible. Are there circumstances where you have to do it? Sure, of course, that's true for anything. I don't think being a soldier is an excuse for killing someone, but I'm also not going to advocate prosecuting people who become soldiers when that's the kind of world we currently live in. On the flip side, there are serial killers who are literally mentally deranged, then there's 20 year olds who have grown up with violence all around them and commit a stupid murder out of fear or other reasons. I'm not saying they shouldn't be punished, but I am saying we can do better than just throwing them in jail. You can find cases of people who go into jail over and over and never learn... but you can also find cases of people who DID learn, you started studying in jail, started bettering themselves, and truly reformed themselves the way all liberals imagine and no conservatives will ever admit. So when you say I want it both ways, it's because both ways ARE possible and DO happen. I'm not being wishy-washy, I'm acknowledging reality.

 

[Cruella]

Some people are born bad, and there is no amount of love, education, or intervention that will help them. And yes, they come in a rainbow of colors and shades. Life has a garden full of mentally disordered blooms.

 

[Cruella]

I'm not saying they shouldn't be punished, but I am saying we can do better than just throwing them in jail. You can find cases of people who go into jail over and over and never learn... but you can also find cases of people who DID learn, you started studying in jail, started bettering themselves, and truly reformed themselves the way all liberals imagine and no conservatives will ever admit. So when you say I want it both ways, it's because both ways ARE possible and DO happen. I'm not being wishy-washy, I'm acknowledging reality.

Why do I keep getting the feeling you may be talking from personal experience? If you are that's fine, and it's none of my business either. But I don't see people as being black or white. We are all individuals, different circumstances and different experiences. It's what we do with those that count. We are supposed to be a nation of laws, and sometimes people become victims of those laws. But they were put there for a reason.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Some people are born bad, and there is no amount of love, education, or intervention that will help them. And yes, they come in a rainbow of colors and shades. Life has a garden full of mentally disordered blooms.

Now THIS--is a piece of Art-- Poetry--and very well written.
Wisdom, par excellance.

 

[bobbyjimmy]

Why do I keep getting the feeling you may be talking from personal experience? If you are that's fine, and it's none of my business either. But I don't see people as being black or white. We are all individuals, different circumstances and different experiences. It's what we do with those that count. We are supposed to be a nation of laws, and sometimes people become victims of those laws. But they were put there for a reason.

yeah, I agree with that statement... so what does that have to do with undecided voters who don't support either party again?

I've never committed a crime or been to jail or anything like that. I just happen to care about people, and have gotten to know plenty of them and plenty of their stories. Some people will probably never learn, and keep making the same mistake until they die (and that's true not just for criminals but everyone in all areas of life.) And others, thanks to some caring individuals who actually believed in them and stuck with them, have succeeded in making lives out of what used to be a one way ticket to disaster. Plenty of people had written them off as being born bad and a waste of time, but thankfully, not everyone listened. Conservatives like to write any attempt at social change as being wishy-washy liberal fantasies that just waste taxpayer's time and money. Like everything else, that is probably true in some situations, and untrue in others. But spending money helping people makes a lot more sense than spending money fighting them.

 

[Cruella]

Now THIS--is a piece of Art-- Poetry--and very well written.
Wisdom, par excellance.

Ah shucks. I think your posts are rubbing off on me.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Why do I keep getting the feeling you may be talking from personal experience? If you are that's fine, and it's none of my business either. But I don't see people as being black or white. We are all individuals, different circumstances and different experiences. It's what we do with those that count. We are supposed to be a nation of laws, and sometimes people become victims of those laws. But they were put there for a reason.

The brutal facts are as simple as this--
Do we err on the side of the miscreant--or--protect the innocent and helpless.

You CANNOT have it both ways. There is NOTHING in-between.
It has been tried thousands of times and cemeteries are filled with innocent people whose lives were extinguished because some punk was unhappy he didn't get the bike or Nike shoes he wanted when he was 12 years old. Make it a point in your life to talk to a victim's family of a serious crime--or--perhaps you know one now.

If you live long enough, you will see almost everything--right before your eyes. Dead bodies--lots of them.
I have had burglaries and two cars stolen. Not nice.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Ah shucks. I think your posts are rubbing off on me.

You have life experience.
There is no substitute.
You can only get it--the hard way.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

yeah, I agree with that statement... so what does that have to do with undecided voters who don't support either party again?

I've never committed a crime or been to jail or anything like that. I just happen to care about people, and have gotten to know plenty of them and plenty of their stories. Some people will probably never learn, and keep making the same mistake until they die (and that's true not just for criminals but everyone in all areas of life.) And others, thanks to some caring individuals who actually believed in them and stuck with them, have succeeded in making lives out of what used to be a one way ticket to disaster. Plenty of people had written them off as being born bad and a waste of time, but thankfully, not everyone listened. Conservatives like to write any attempt at social change as being wishy-washy liberal fantasies that just waste taxpayer's time and money. Like everything else, that is probably true in some situations, and untrue in others. But spending money helping people makes a lot more sense than spending money fighting them.

Conservatives are like a good father.
He will draw a line--and not let you cross it, because he knows the harm to you will be great.
It pisses you off--but years later--you will look back differently.

I have been great friends with people who committed crimes. Talked about it with them
Ultimately--it is a personal decision one must make, and if you can do the crime you better be prepared to do the time.