Sicko: whaddayathink?

[Kwaku]

I saw Michael Moore's new documentary Sicko on sunday. I was wondering what Americans think about it?

I was pretty shocked, coming from a country where everybody gets care, no matter whether you are insured or not.
Still, I must say that some scenes were REALLY over the top: the happy people in the British NHS for instance. I lived in the UK for a year and they are actually very unhappy with the level of care they receive, especially in poor neighbourhoods. Still, if Moore is right about the US, people not getting ANY care at all, children dying because of this and patients being dumped on the street by hospitals while theyre still in their surgery gowns?
That's really bad.

So, what do you guys think?

 

[Popeye]

I saw Michael Moore's new documentary Sicko on sunday. I was wondering what Americans think about it?

I was pretty shocked, coming from a country where everybody gets care, no matter whether you are insured or not.
Still, I must say that some scenes were REALLY over the top: the happy people in the British NHS for instance. I lived in the UK for a year and they are actually very unhappy with the level of care they receive, especially in poor neighbourhoods. Still, if Moore is right about the US, people not getting ANY care at all, children dying because of this and patients being dumped on the street by hospitals while theyre still in their surgery gowns?
That's really bad.

So, what do you guys think?

I haven't seen Sicko yet, but its on pay per view next month on DirecTV so I'm all ready. Hospitals, have apparently been dumping homeless people, still in hospital gowns, on skid row when being released. Nice.http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1761873&page=1

You get cancer, insurance won't cover the drugs. Too bad.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21209744/

I'm looking forward to Sicko, as Moore's documentaries always shine a bright light on the many areas of darkness America tries to hide.

 

[vyo476]

I wasn't too fond of Fahrenheit 9/11, but I did like Bowling for Columbine and Stupid White Men. If he didn't take Sicko quite so over-the-top (the thing that did it for me in Fahrenheit 9/11 was one particular scene which is basically just five minutes of a woman crying over her son's death - that was excessive) I'll probably like it quite a bit.

 

[Kwaku]

There are quite a few over the top scenes, some of which made me cringe (he takes a group of sick 9/11 rescue workers to Cuba and they end up hugging with their Cuban "brothers"
And they act like France is the best country in the world and the French are actually killing their own economy by tyhe rigid systems they have.


But are you guys worried?
Are you extra carefull?
What if you get cancer? Do you think you have insurance?
Will you move to Canada?

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

I don't entirely agree with Michael Moore, but I do think he asks valid questions. The US is the only western nation without universal health care. Why? Why are hospitals dumping patients on skid row (I know this is happening, I've read numerous articles about it). The amount of money we spend on medical care is not a secret, his reporting was accurate. The US's standings worldwide in longevity, infant mortality, etc. are not secret either, and he reported them accurately. The cost of prescriptions are a national disgrace in this country, again, he reported this accurately.

In the US we like to think of ourselves as the best in the world and we get angry at anyone who points out our flaws, but we need gadflies like Moore to keep us honest, to make us look at ourselves more closely. I thought the movie was very good despite some faux pas.

The idea that France is bankrupting itself is laughable. What the Hell do you think the US has done to itself? Look at where we are and it makes France look very good--at least THEY are spending the money to help their people while we're spending ours to kill people with an insanely huge military and by lax laws that give corporations a free hand to rob the American people. (Just look at our pharmaceutical prices!)

 

[Kwaku]

Laughable?

This might not be the place to start a discussion on the economic and social situation of France, but it's not going that well. There is huge unemployment, especially among the young, and they aren't rioting in Paris for floppy fun!

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Laughable?

This might not be the place to start a discussion on the economic and social situation of France, but it's not going that well. There is huge unemployment, especially among the young, and they aren't rioting in Paris for floppy fun!

Are we in any better shape? I'd like to note that England was bankrupt and going down the tubes--according to reports in the media--because they had become a welfare state, but that never happened either.

 

[PLC1]

I haven't seen "Sicko." I've heard about it, and I'm familiar with Michael Moor's work from other films.

I'm pretty sure it isn't going to be a documentary about the American health care system, but it should be at least a wake up call about it.

The US is the only modern nation without universal care, and it spends more than any other nation on its health care. Those are undisputed facts. Look them up if you don't believe me.

It is tempting to say that we pay more because we don't have universal care. That may be so, but correlation does not necessarily mean causation. The conclusion that must be drawn from those two facts is that we need to seriously reform our health care system, no doubt about it. We might think we have the best, radio pundits may say we have the best, but the WHO says we're #37. Who are you going to believe, the WHO, or the radio pundits?

Mare Tranquillity is correct that the notion that France is bankrupting itself is laughable. France spends 7% of its GDP on health care, while the US spends 16%. If anyone is going to go bankrupt paying for health care, it's us.

9/11 rescue teams going to Cuba for health care? That sounds like a MM pipe dream to me. Did it actually happen? If it did, then it needs to be shouted from the rooftops, printed in big, bold letters above the fold, and examined to see what needs to be done. If it didn't, then shame on MM for using fantasy to promote his idea. Shame on the public for buying it.

As for universal care, I asked this question on another forum, and got no positive responses, none, zero. I'll try it here:

Who of you who live in a country that has universal care, i.e., most anywhere besides the US, would trade your system of medical care for ours?

Anyone..... anyone???

 

[USMC the Almighty]

Who of you who live in a country that has universal care, i.e., most anywhere besides the US, would trade your system of medical care for ours?

Anyone..... anyone???

There are thousands of stories from Canadians who run to the U.S. whenever a serious medical issue needs to be addressed.

 

[PLC1]

There are thousands of stories from Canadians who run to the U.S. whenever a serious medical issue needs to be addressed.

yes, there are, many stories. I wonder how much truth there is behind them? Any Canadians on this forum?

 

[Popeye]

I haven't seen "Sicko." I've heard about it, and I'm familiar with Michael Moor's work from other films.

I'm pretty sure it isn't going to be a documentary about the American health care system, but it should be at least a wake up call about it.

The US is the only modern nation without universal care, and it spends more than any other nation on its health care. Those are undisputed facts. Look them up if you don't believe me.

It is tempting to say that we pay more because we don't have universal care. That may be so, but correlation does not necessarily mean causation. The conclusion that must be drawn from those two facts is that we need to seriously reform our health care system, no doubt about it. We might think we have the best, radio pundits may say we have the best, but the WHO says we're #37. Who are you going to believe, the WHO, or the radio pundits?

Mare Tranquillity is correct that the notion that France is bankrupting itself is laughable. France spends 7% of its GDP on health care, while the US spends 16%. If anyone is going to go bankrupt paying for health care, it's us.

9/11 rescue teams going to Cuba for health care? That sounds like a MM pipe dream to me. Did it actually happen? If it did, then it needs to be shouted from the rooftops, printed in big, bold letters above the fold, and examined to see what needs to be done. If it didn't, then shame on MM for using fantasy to promote his idea. Shame on the public for buying it.

As for universal care, I asked this question on another forum, and got no positive responses, none, zero. I'll try it here:

Who of you who live in a country that has universal care, i.e., most anywhere besides the US, would trade your system of medical care for ours?

Anyone..... anyone???

Just saw Sicko tonight, thought it was very good. Exposed the US medical system, complete with monetary figures, for what it really is-a cozy relationship between our elected officials and the lobbies of the insurance and pharmaceutical industries.

Debunked some myths, fostered primarily by the right, about health care in Canada, France and the UK. In fact, he talked to Americans living in France who actually literally laughed at the health care system in the US.

He did indeed take three boats of Americans, among them 9/11 workers, to Cuba. They all had medical conditions that were treated at an up to date looking hospital in Havana. Medical conditions, I might add, that they couldn't get treated for properly in the US, due to a lack of funds.

All in all, the movie was a indictment of the US medical system. It's complete with case histories of Americans who have suffered under a system that is driven by profit, not compassion.

 

[Truth-Bringer]

Just saw Sicko tonight, thought it was very good. Exposed the US medical system, complete with monetary figures, for what it really is-a cozy relationship between our elected officials and the lobbies of the insurance and pharmaceutical industries.

And that is the problem. And it needs to be addressed. We need to end the influence of the insurance companies and the pharmaceutical lobby.

But the left's solution is irrational. What the left is saying is that they want the same elected officials who are at the bottom of our current problems to totally remake the system with greater government control. Again, it's irrational - trusting the people who have screwed the entire system up to miraculously fix it.

 

[USMC the Almighty]

But the left's solution is irrational. What the left is saying is that they want the same elected officials who are at the bottom of our current problems to totally remake the system with greater government control. Again, it's irrational - trusting the people who have screwed the entire system up to miraculously fix it.

Exactly.

 

[Popeye]

And that is the problem. And it needs to be addressed. We need to end the influence of the insurance companies and the pharmaceutical lobby.

But the left's solution is irrational. What the left is saying is that they want the same elected officials who are at the bottom of our current problems to totally remake the system with greater government control. Again, it's irrational - trusting the people who have screwed the entire system up to miraculously fix it.

I've got a better idea, let's just keep the screwed up system we have in place now, because we don't trust anyone to fix it. Rather a pessimistic attitude, don't you think?

 

[PLC1]

I've got a better idea, let's just keep the screwed up system we have in place now, because we don't trust anyone to fix it. Rather a pessimistic attitude, don't you think?

Yes, it is a kind of pessimistic attitude. What we need to look at is the fact that every other nation in thd world has universal care, they all pay less than we do, and they depend on their respective governments to administer the system. If we can't depend on our government to do the same, then it is time to reexamine that government.

We might be better off to trust the individual states to come up with 50 plans, rather than to trust the feds to come up with one.