Why we need to renew the war on "Christians."

[OldTrapper]

How do you know this exactly?

What difference does it make? Jesus spoke to giving from wealth.

Mark 12:41-44



Keep talking. You are now just pulling dirt into the grave you so obligingly dug.

Did Christ condemn the wealthy, or did He just point out that the widow was more generous? How much of the widows generousity could have helped others? According to the teachings of Jesus, and His commandment, the widow would have had nothing to give if not for the wealthy, and their support of her.

 

[OldTrapper]

Well at least I understand the value of a Doctorate in Phrenology and don't try to trade on that as a debating point like some people do with their supposed Doctorate in Theology.

How could you profit from a "science" that is as phony as you?

By the way, it is only you that tries to use my doctorate as a debating point, and a slur.

You really should quote scripture chapter and verse, it makes it much easier for us to check and see if you are misquoting or "perverting" the Scriptures.

So far you are the only one that has perverted the scriptures. Typical for you to try and accuse another of doing so.

 

[AtheismIsReality]

Did Christ condemn the wealthy, or did He just point out that the widow was more generous? How much of the widows generousity could have helped others? According to the teachings of Jesus, and His commandment, the widow would have had nothing to give if not for the wealthy, and their support of her.

I'd say that was definitely a rebuke to the wealthy as Jesus pointed out their lavish displays of wealth were spiritually bankrupt in the face of the widow's offering.

And the wealthy's support of her? I thought all blessings came from God. Interesting that you would think the hand of man was at work behind what the widow has.

Keep pulling the dirt in.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

How could you profit from a "science" that is as phony as you?

I am not aware of anyone proving that my science is phony. Got proof? A link? A scripture?

By the way, it is only you that tries to use my doctorate as a debating point, and a slur.

Hey, you are the one who bragged about your Doctorate and then couldn't back it up with a detailed knowledge of the Bible. Do you remember making a number of statements about the contents of the Bible and ALL those statements turned out to be false? Hello?

So far you are the only one that has perverted the scriptures. Typical for you to try and accuse another of doing so.

You have not shown even one example of my perverting the scriptures. And I didn't accuse you of doing so, all I did was ask politely (several times) for you to cite chapter and verse when you refer to something in the Bible.

 

[AtheismIsReality]

Why didn't Christ "turn the other cheek" as you seem to think He should have?




That is not what you have been saying at all. Christ taught that one's property was to be defended, not stolen, regardless of the authority of the Courts which the Pharisees, and lawyers (scribes) represented at the time. It matter not what the hypocrites declared publicly when their actions demonstrated where their heart was.

What you are attempting to do is use Christ's words to defend your own hypocrisy.




No. What it demonstrates is that one is not required to "turn the other cheek" under all circumstances. Under your "law" self defense would be condemned, and Christ did not teach that at all, and self defense also pertained to ones property.





What does God give a person to use to provide for his family? Is it not the "property"? If one has not that property how is he to provide?

What does one do when another attempts to steal what God has given him?




Only because you are guided by the blind.



And yet you have in Luke 22:36 "The He said to them 'But now I tell you, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a sack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.' "

Now, none is denying that Christians are to be generous, and facts show they are, however, it is not taught that one should just lay down, and be a floor mat while the likes of you destroy them. God gave commands for everything, and yet He also gave them free will. Christ also taught in John 15:13 "Greater love has no one than this, that to lay down his life for his friends".





I've often argued that Christians should just withdraw from society as the Amish, and Bereans, have done, and do business only with other Christians in the manner as the first Christians did in your example given in Acts. They should strive to be "perfect as their God in heaven is perfect." However, if they were to do so then they could not be examples to others, and people like you would just take advantage of them, or kill them as the Romans, and the apostate Roman Catholic Church, did. They would then have to form their own nation as the Jews have done, and suffer the persecutions you propose. It will come to pass as Christ foretold in the Book of Revelation.

Till then they will remain the imperfect beings they are, and act much like the rest of the world with their carnal feelings. Instead of proposing their destruction you should be singing praises to God that they are here to "control" what would obviously be a chaotic world, by their example. Without their beliefs we would have no Constitution, and very few of the laws passed concerning morality would have been passed. And as fewer numbers profess to be Christian the country is becoming more chaotic as secularism is accepted.

Not all who claim to be Christian are truely Christian. Obama, Reid, Pelosi, etc., are examples of that, lacking the knowledge to act as such. God said "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge", just as He said "Many are called, few are chosen".

However, your proposal shows why even in this time Christians are not safe, and need to be wary of the tenuous situation they are in, and need to be prepared.

So why didn't Jesus turn the other cheek in regard to the Temple incident? All along I have said the Christians are to follow Jesus' teachings. Jesus taught you to turn the other cheek.

Jesus is also the the Chrisitans' LORD. Your Lord took care of business because he knows better than you. Your very question shows that you see yourself as you Lord's equal. Maybe you should pray about that.

I have been saying that "Christians" value earthly goods above all else. I've had a couple breaking neck to do just that on this thread.

You do realize that the "owner" in the parable of the tenants is God, right? He created the vineyard, i.e. the world. He sent his servants, i.e. the prophets. He then sent his son, i.e. Jesus. Now when did the tenants get their deserved punishment? That's right, when God showed up to lay down his righteous judgment. Hmm, seems I was wrong. You don't put yourself on you "Lord's" level, you make yourself a god.

Which leads us to the father? What money God gives a father is "his" money? What God gives, he can not take away? I thought God was sovereign. Anyway.

Luke 22:36 is an interesting passage, and I want to deal with it in a separate post as this one is long enough.

Your final polemic is just more boasting. You are like the Pharisee who stands with his head held high while praying. Caught up in your own self righteousness.

With every word you show you allegiance to the very secularism you pretend to spit on. Attaching yourself to earthly treasures then pretending you serve God is exactly what I cannot stand about "Christians."

 

[AtheismIsReality]

Let's look at 22:36, but expand it.

Luke 22:31-38

"Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift you as wheat. But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."

But he replied, "Lord, I am ready to go with you to prison and to death." Jesus answered, "I tell you, Peter, before the rooster crows today, you will deny three times that you know me."

Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?" "Nothing," they answered. He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."

The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied.

Where are we at in the story? Jesus is about to be arrested. He has already informed his Apostles that he will be arrested, tried, and executed.

Why does he want someone to buy a sword? Because he is setting up his Apostles to show the weakness of their faith. He foreshadows this by telling Peter that he will falter, but become stronger in faith because of it.

Jesus points out to his Apostles that he sent them out with nothing, but they never wanted of anything (kind of like he said would happen earlier).

He then brings their attention to their possessions. Again, he's setting them up. He is going to show the folly of valuing earthly possessions over faith in him. When he says the two swords are enough, he's saying that it is enough to teach the lesson.

What am I basing this on? By what happened when they USED the swords. Why it occurs in the same chapter.

Luke 22:47-53

While he was still speaking a crowd came up, and the man who was called Judas, one of the Twelve, was leading them. He approached Jesus to kiss him, but Jesus asked him, "Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?"

When Jesus' followers saw what was going to happen, they said, "Lord, should we strike with our swords?" And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear.

But Jesus answered, "No more of this!" And he touched the man's ear and healed him.

Then Jesus said to the chief priests, the officers of the temple guard, and the elders, who had come for him, "Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come with swords and clubs? Every day I was with you in the temple courts, and you did not lay a hand on me. But this is your hour—when darkness reigns."

And there you have it. They KNEW what was going to happen. Jesus told them not to resist evil men, but their faith was weak. They thought the hand of man could change the will of God.

You know what. Keep trying. I'm tickled that you so easily confirm my characterizations of "Christians." You think you are to decide the cup you are to drink from.

 

[OldTrapper]

I am not aware of anyone proving that my science is phony. Got proof? A link? A scripture?

Even Mirriam Websters calls it a hoax. However, here is just one source

http://arcana.wikidot.com/phrenology

I would not have said it was hoax if I did not think it is, and could prove it unlike you.

Hey, you are the one who bragged about your Doctorate and then couldn't back it up with a detailed knowledge of the Bible. Do you remember making a number of statements about the contents of the Bible and ALL those statements turned out to be false? Hello?

None were false. Again you lie, and continue on your own little dream world. The simple fact that you relied on Bible Gateway, and who knows what other source, while I relied on the King James, does not make my comments false.

I have made two comments on my Doctorate, and neither of them were a brag. The first was in rsponse to your allegation that I knew nothing of the Bible, and the second was about your constant denigration of my having a doctorate.

Again you lie.

You have not shown even one example of my perverting the scriptures. And I didn't accuse you of doing so, all I did was ask politely (several times) for you to cite chapter and verse when you refer to something in the Bible.

Again you lie. The one example I continue to use was your claim that David, and Jonathen, were homosexuals. Your attempt to use the word "confused" as justification for such an accusation was totally explained, and yet you continue to lie about it.

 

[Pandora]

I am looking at the whole.

It all culminates with Jesus having everything he has taken away and having his ass nailed to a cross, then not being cross with those who did it to him.

What does that teach?

If someone cannot take your life away, what can they take away that matters? Why has no "Christian" answered that?

What do you care if you are a slave? What do you care if the government comes and takes everything you have? How does it make a difference in the WHOLE? Is some suffering, in what temporally is a blink of an eye, not worth an eternity in Heaven? Is having a house and 401k for a second that important to you?

Keep talking. Both you and Old Trapper can't help but make my point.

You aren't content enough with trusting God to give you what you need. You have to get what you want.

Keep telling it.

You may have been looking at the whole passage but you did not post the whole the whole passage or site the whole of the text.

What do we care if we are slaves? You sound very much like Jim Jones but thankfully not nearly as convincing I bet you couldn’t even convince a group of mindless idiots to use scripture for toilet paper!

Have a nice day

 

[AtheismIsReality]

You may have been looking at the whole passage but you did not post the whole the whole passage or site the whole of the text.

What do we care if we are slaves? You sound very much like Jim Jones but thankfully not nearly as convincing I bet you couldn’t even convince a group of mindless idiots to use scripture for toilet paper!

Have a nice day

As I said, a second of comfort is worth more to you than eternity.

Don't worry, you're not alone. Many are called. Few are chosen.

 

[samsara15]

If a person worries about the money they have earned and the property they have spent their adult life investing in, they are materialists?

You should be tired of more than just Glenn Beck, you should add the founding fathers and at least half of America if not 3/4ths to your list of who you are tired of because even democrats worry about the money they make, heck even the hard core libs fight like crazy to make more money via their unions and I know of no one who has taken the time and money to invest in property that doesnt want to make sure they keep their property rights.

What makes you think hard core libs are union members? Few workers in today's society are union workers. The ones who get screwed the worst by their management are the non-union workers who work for large corporations.

 

[OldTrapper]

So why didn't Jesus turn the other cheek in regard to the Temple incident? All along I have said the Christians are to follow Jesus' teachings. Jesus taught you to turn the other cheek.

And yet Jesus did not do so. You speak of examples. Is this not an example of when one does not turn the other cheek?

As one teacher told me, you only have two cheeks.

Jesus is also the the Chrisitans' LORD. Your Lord took care of business because he knows better than you. Your very question shows that you see yourself as you Lord's equal. Maybe you should pray about that.

Because I use the example of Jesus I am somehow now His equal? Are not Christians representatives of the Lord Jesus? Are we then to allow the desecretion of His creation whether it be the spiritual, or physical?

I have been saying that "Christians" value earthly goods above all else. I've had a couple breaking neck to do just that on this thread.

Not at all. What you have seen is one trying to explain to you that the basis for your argument is one of ignorance of the faith; and second, one which is designed to place the Christian in a state of obeisance to your standards, and understanding.

You do realize that the "owner" in the parable of the tenants is God, right? He created the vineyard, i.e. the world. He sent his servants, i.e. the prophets. He then sent his son, i.e. Jesus. Now when did the tenants get their deserved punishment? That's right, when God showed up to lay down his righteous judgment. Hmm, seems I was wrong. You don't put yourself on you "Lord's" level, you make yourself a god.

So, to you every example given by Christ is limited to one of a spiritual nature. There is no physical relevance to it?

Matthew 13:10-23 (King James Version)

10And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

12For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

14And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

16But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

17For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

18Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.

19When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Which leads us to the father? What money God gives a father is "his" money? What God gives, he can not take away? I thought God was sovereign. Anyway.

True that He is, and if He wished to do so He would just as He allowed Satan to take from Job. However, if you were to read Acts 5:4 once again you would see that as long as we have control of it then it is ours to do with as we please. That is what free will is about. God may be sovereign, yet He is not a tyrant.

Your final polemic is just more boasting. You are like the Pharisee who stands with his head held high while praying. Caught up in your own self righteousness.

Spurgeon wrote about separation of the unclean, and the clean. There is a better one then this, and I will try to find it for you.

http://www.biblebb.com/files/spurgeon/0305.htm

With every word you show you allegiance to the very secularism you pretend to spit on. Attaching yourself to earthly treasures then pretending you serve God is exactly what I cannot stand about "Christians."

You have yet to show any evidence i am attached to my "treasures", or even that the likes of Beck is. All you have is a whine about how much he earns. You know nothing of what he does with it, just as you know nothing of what I do with mine.

It is your own envy, covetnous, whatever you want to call it, that you despise.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Even Mirriam Websters calls it a hoax. However, here is just one source

http://arcana.wikidot.com/phrenology

I would not have said it was hoax if I did not think it is, and could prove it unlike you.

I like it! But you missed the point. I know phrenology is nonsense, I was making the point that a Doctorate in Theology is the equivalent of a Doctorate in Phrenology, neither is worth the paper they're printed on.

None were false. Again you lie, and continue on your own little dream world. The simple fact that you relied on Bible Gateway, and who knows what other source, while I relied on the King James, does not make my comments false.

Bible Gateway is a respected Biblical site with dozens of Bible versions listed so that one can cross-reference them. You didn't use just the KJV or you would have known that the reference I made to David "exceeding" was correct and in the KJV. In the "NEW KING JAMES" the wording is different, the NEW CENTURY VERSION is also different, but the AMERICAN STANDARD VERSION is still using the term "exceeded". It makes a lot of difference which Bible you use as to what it says.

I have made two comments on my Doctorate, and neither of them were a brag. The first was in rsponse to your allegation that I knew nothing of the Bible, and the second was about your constant denigration of my having a doctorate.

You made sure that I knew I was dealing with a Doctor of Theology when we began and thus put me on notice that you were nobody's fool where the Bible was concerned. But then you made all kinds of kooky statements about the contents of the Bible--with no scriptural references--and they were all wrong. Just like you don't know about the Bible Gateway, where did you get your Doctorate?

Again you lie. The one example I continue to use was your claim that David, and Jonathen, were homosexuals. Your attempt to use the word "confused" as justification for such an accusation was totally explained, and yet you continue to lie about it.

You haven't given any counter to my interpretation of those scriptures except, "No sir! No sir! No sir!" and that's not really an argument. You do realize that there are more than 4000 sects of Christians just because of the interpretation of the Bible in thousands of different ways, don't you?

You also didn't answer any of my questions about your interpretation of the Bible scriptures about David and Jonathan. Why not?

 

[AtheismIsReality]

You have yet to show any evidence i am attached to my "treasures", or even that the likes of Beck is. All you have is a whine about how much he earns. You know nothing of what he does with it, just as you know nothing of what I do with mine.

It is your own envy, covetnous, whatever you want to call it, that you despise.

Every word shows your attachment. You do everything in your power to twist the Bible to justify why you deserve a house and a 401k.

Spare me the aspersions about me coveting what you have. I want nothing of yours. Those fruits only further define you.

 

[Pandora]

What makes you think hard core libs are union members? Few workers in today's society are union workers. The ones who get screwed the worst by their management are the non-union workers who work for large corporations.

all the really hard core libs I know all either work for unions or advocate for unions, most conservatives I know hate the union they are stuck in or are not in any union at all.

 

[Pandora]

Many are called. Few are chosen.

This is about the only thing you have said correct in this thread