a question for the atheists

We have had lots of constitutional amendments for the social good. If one were proposed, would you support an amendment to prohibit the sale of assault weapons to civilians?

I would not support such an amendment. I'd hate to think that citizens would be 100% at the mercy of an out-of-control, power-hungry government. Having said that, however, I fully acknowledge that the amendment process can be used to restrict or completely delete the 2nd Amendment. Trying to do so by Judicial activism or improper legislative actions is NOT a Constitutional option! IF great restrictions are to be placed on gun ownership, such restrictions must be implemented via the Constitutionally-mandated method of Amendment!

Yeah, I know guns don't kill people, people kill people. Same with cars, yet we have much much tighter regulations on cars than guns.

It is not a Constitutional Right to operate cars. It is a Constitutionally-guaranteed Right to bear arms. Cars could be legally restricted even further than they already are, as exemplified by our government's laws requiring seatbelts, gas-mileage standards, etc.

What is curious, is that you are now referring to my paragraph where I advocate a scientific study on teaching character and responsibility. I make no mention of assault weapons, yet you immediately bring the topic back to assault weapons.

Allow me to satisfy your curiosity. You stated that you wouldn't support the teaching of "good character" nor personal "responsibility" without a scientific study that supported my premise that by doing so we would reduce violence. I simply noted that you don't seem to believe that such a scientific study is necessary when it comes to supporting your premise that stricter gun laws would reduce violence. On the surface, that appears to be a very selective application for the need for scientific study?? I'm simply suggesting that your premise deserves the same degree of scientific scrutiny as you claim my premise deserves.

I seemed to hit a real nerve on you about assault rifles, and I don't understand why. Do you own an assault rifle?

I do not own an assault rifle, nor do I own a firearm of any kind. I never have.

IF I've had a nerve "hit", it's the contention by some that our Constitutional Rights can be ignored because they're outdated. The Right to "free speech" cannot be legally restricted unless the presently-guaranteed Right has been amended. I apply that same logic to our Right to bear arms. Selective application of our Constitution is not a legal option, and is a highly dangerous position to take. Such logic could easily backfire on those who insist that it is. Doesn't this make sense?
 
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I would not support such an amendment. I'd hate to think that citizens would be 100% at the mercy of an out-of-control, power-hungry government.
I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it seems that you want to maintain the possibility of forcibly overthrowing the U.S. government using assault rifles, or whatever. Yes, the government is rapidly becoming a full blown Plutocracy. Are you seriously thinking in terms of a bloody revolution?
Allow me to satisfy your curiosity. You stated that you wouldn't support the teaching of "good character" nor personal "responsibility" without a scientific study that supported my premise that by doing so we would reduce violence. I simply noted that you don't seem to believe that such a scientific study is necessary when it comes to supporting your premise that stricter gun laws would reduce violence. On the surface, that appears to be a very selective application for the need for scientific study?? I'm simply suggesting that your premise deserves the same degree of scientific scrutiny as you claim my premise deserves.
Sure. Do a study. It's no big thing with me, and I never said I was against it. You are putting your thoughts into my head and criticizing me for them. (Strawman argument)

I don't have any ideas how you could do a study with a group that is allowed assault rifles in a big city and a control group not allowed. A study about teaching responsibility is easier within the confines of a school, but not in the open streets of the 'hood
IF I've had a nerve "hit", it's the contention by some that our Constitutional Rights can be ignored because they're outdated. The Right to "free speech" cannot be legally restricted unless the presently-guaranteed Right has been amended. I apply that same logic to our Right to bear arms. Selective application of our Constitution is not a legal option, and is a highly dangerous position to take. Such logic could easily backfire on those who insist that it is. Doesn't this make sense?
Now don't get excited; I am exaggerating, but it seems that you are putting higher reverence in the Constitution than you are the Commandment, thou shalt not murder. I just don't understand how a Christian should be so up in arms about arms, so to speak. As I said before we are miles apart from understanding each other. I'm not a Christian, and I can't even kill a spider, let alone fire an assault rifle in a bloody revolution. I really am puzzled.
 
I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it seems that you want to maintain the possibility of forcibly overthrowing the U.S. government using assault rifles, or whatever. Yes, the government is rapidly becoming a full blown Plutocracy. Are you seriously thinking in terms of a bloody revolution?

Sure. Do a study. It's no big thing with me, and I never said I was against it. You are putting your thoughts into my head and criticizing me for them. (Strawman argument)

I don't have any ideas how you could do a study with a group that is allowed assault rifles in a big city and a control group not allowed. A study about teaching responsibility is easier within the confines of a school, but not in the open streets of the 'hood

Now don't get excited; I am exaggerating, but it seems that you are putting higher reverence in the Constitution than you are the Commandment, thou shalt not murder. I just don't understand how a Christian should be so up in arms about arms, so to speak. As I said before we are miles apart from understanding each other. I'm not a Christian, and I can't even kill a spider, let alone fire an assault rifle in a bloody revolution. I really am puzzled.


as to the last point murder is the intentional taking of human life (plants and.other animals were put here for our benefit nit as equals). so there are any number of causes of killing that do not violate the law including the accidental.

im sure the critters where you live appreciate your viewpoint : ). and if the karma works out for you ill be glad.
 
I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it seems that you want to maintain the possibility of forcibly overthrowing the U.S. government using assault rifles, or whatever. Yes, the government is rapidly becoming a full blown Plutocracy. Are you seriously thinking in terms of a bloody revolution?

Sure. Do a study. It's no big thing with me, and I never said I was against it. You are putting your thoughts into my head and criticizing me for them. (Strawman argument)

I don't have any ideas how you could do a study with a group that is allowed assault rifles in a big city and a control group not allowed. A study about teaching responsibility is easier within the confines of a school, but not in the open streets of the 'hood

Now don't get excited; I am exaggerating, but it seems that you are putting higher reverence in the Constitution than you are the Commandment, thou shalt not murder. I just don't understand how a Christian should be so up in arms about arms, so to speak. As I said before we are miles apart from understanding each other. I'm not a Christian, and I can't even kill a spider, let alone fire an assault rifle in a bloody revolution. I really am puzzled.

Very few Americans want a bloody revolution. It is funny you mention revolution considering that the radical left has been pushing for a revolution in America for decades. I believe much of what the radical Left has demanded has been accomplished.

Regarding guns, it is an historical fact that a disarmed citizenry is at the mercy of its rulers and this often leads to unbelievable suffering and death. See the communist regimes of the 20th Century for proof.

It is also an historical fact that an armed populace can defeat a much better equipped army of professional soldiers. See the Vietnam War, Afghan Wars, American Revolution, etc.... It is also true that an armed populace is a check on the power of government even when those arms are never utilized.

For Americans to give up their second amendment rights would be most foolish. By any objective analysis, our central government is trending more tyrannical by the day. Without their guns, Americans would be completely at the mercy of this huge omnipresent dictatorial government many liberals and neocons approve of and support.
 
I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it seems that you want to maintain the possibility of forcibly overthrowing the U.S. government using assault rifles, or whatever. Yes, the government is rapidly becoming a full blown Plutocracy. Are you seriously thinking in terms of a bloody revolution?.

You're not putting words in my mouth in this case, as that's exactly what I meant. Should we have told those Jewish patriots who hid in the mountains of eastern Europe attacking Nazi supply trains that they should accept their slavery and remain docile? Should we have told those citizens who revolted against Khadafi that they should have put aside violence in hopes their dictator would finally treat them fairly? Should we tell those Syrians now revolting against Assad that they should remain peaceful and just accept their enslavement to a despotic government? To say that revolution must never be an option relegates the world population to enslavement by dishonorable and despotic rulers. Jefferson understood that fact, and he stated exactly what I stated. As JFK once told an impressive audience of US VIP's at a White House banquet, "There hasn't been this much intelligence all together in one room since Thomas Jeferson dined alone!" (approximate quote) It's usually a good bet to go with Jefferson. Assuming that our government will never be run by despotic elements would be a dangerous assumption!

Sure. Do a study. It's no big thing with me, and I never said I was against it. You are putting your thoughts into my head and criticizing me for them. (Strawman argument).

It's true that you didn't say you were against a study to prove your premise or mine, but you did say that such a study would be absolutely necessary before you could accept my premise. Are you then stating that a similar study as the one you mandated before accepting my premise be mandated before implimenting further gun control? If so, then we have no difference on this point.

Many on the left wish to require gun control, and I've not heard one say that an impartial, scientific study should be conducted to prove their premise before taking such action. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, so mine is not a strawman argument. I'm simply asking for the same kind of proof for your premise as you demanded of mine, and having the impartial results before imposing a solution.

I don't have any ideas how you could do a study with a group that is allowed assault rifles in a big city and a control group not allowed. A study about teaching responsibility is easier within the confines of a school, but not in the open streets of the 'hood.

If we're seeking a good example of a "strawman argument", you've provided one here. The justification for gun control is that the prevalence of guns causes violent behavior. If that premise is true, one should argue for restrictions on all gun ownership, not just assault weapons. The premise that would be studied is the one I offered, and assault weapons needn't be widely distributed to prove or disprove that premise. If my premise is true, it follows that the teaching and enforcement of "good character" and "responsibility" would result in reduced violence, regardless of what weapons are available to the citizenry.

Now don't get excited; I am exaggerating, but it seems that you are putting higher reverence in the Constitution than you are the Commandment, thou shalt not murder. I just don't understand how a Christian should be so up in arms about arms, so to speak. As I said before we are miles apart from understanding each other. I'm not a Christian, and I can't even kill a spider, let alone fire an assault rifle in a bloody revolution. I really am puzzled.

No excitement here, but this appears to be another strawman? As a Christian, I AM opposed to murder. As a citizen of the Republic based on the greatest Constitution ever written, I am also opposed to any governmental leadership that ignores that Constitution. If there is a religious argument here, it's my argument that it's the morality and character of individuals that causes violence, not the prevalence of firearms. It is also a lack of morality and character that creates despots; another reason for us to concentrate on raising the level of individual character, not on outlawing a means by which those of non-violent character can defend against those individuals and governments with violent and despotic intentions.
 
as to the last point murder is the intentional taking of human life (plants and.other animals were put here for our benefit nit as equals). so there are any number of causes of killing that do not violate the law including the accidental.
Right. I'm talking only about assault rifles. Murder is usually intentional when you use them on people.
im sure the critters where you live appreciate your viewpoint : ). and if the karma works out for you ill be glad.
:)
 
Right. I'm talking only about assault rifles. Murder is usually intentional when you use them on people.
:)

are all people shot with scary looking rifles or handguns (or short barrel shotguns etc) innocent ? and ultimately its God who will address the consequences of sin be it one of the ten or others.
 
OK, there is too much going on here, I can't reply to everything.
Gipper says that the radical Left was pushing for revolution. This is news to me. I haven't been following what that group is doing, so I will take your word for it.

It seems you guys are not happy with the government (me neither) and not opposed to the possibility of a revolution with bloodshed. Of course the 2nd amendment "well armed militia" seems to be meant for that purpose. If it is the case that conservatives generally feel that way, then I don't understand the dynamics involved:

The NRA wants the loosest laws for gun ownership. They are supplying large contributions and strong lobbies to politicians to keep these laws. Yet it is to the politicians disadvantage that the people are well armed and pose a physical threat to the politicians. Are the politicians duped by the NRA? Is the NRA promoting armed strength in the people to keep pressure on the government? Is the NRA simply trying to represent manufactures of weapons and nothing more? Is there a conspiracy theory here that I'm not aware of?
 
OK, there is too much going on here, I can't reply to everything.
Gipper says that the radical Left was pushing for revolution. This is news to me. I haven't been following what that group is doing, so I will take your word for it.

It seems you guys are not happy with the government (me neither) and not opposed to the possibility of a revolution with bloodshed. Of course the 2nd amendment "well armed militia" seems to be meant for that purpose. If it is the case that conservatives generally feel that way, then I don't understand the dynamics involved:

The NRA wants the loosest laws for gun ownership. They are supplying large contributions and strong lobbies to politicians to keep these laws. Yet it is to the politicians disadvantage that the people are well armed and pose a physical threat to the politicians. Are the politicians duped by the NRA? Is the NRA promoting armed strength in the people to keep pressure on the government? Is the NRA simply trying to represent manufactures of weapons and nothing more? Is there a conspiracy theory here that I'm not aware of?

The left wanting revolution is news to you???? REALLY??? Have you been living under a rock??? You might start with researching Cloward-Piven (both of whom spent time with BJ Bubba and his wife while in they polluted the WH and they also are close to the current fools in the WH) which was first proposed in 1966!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your apparent lack of knowledge of politics and history is glaring, yet it does not stop you from making uninformed conclusions.

Though your knowledge of politics does include a somewhat informed leftist view of the NRA. Apparently you get all your news from left wing sources. You might want to branch out.

PS. it is "...well regulated militia..." not well armed....here it is in its entirety....A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Imagine that....Obummercare is 2700 pages and the Second Amendment is one sentence....how far we have fallen thanks to liberalism/progressivism.
 
OK, there is too much going on here, I can't reply to everything.
Gipper says that the radical Left was pushing for revolution. This is news to me. I haven't been following what that group is doing, so I will take your word for it.

Understood that the busier the posting, the tougher it is to respond as we'd prefer. As further insight into Conservative thoughr-processes, here's a little background supporting our contention that the left has been pushing for revolution for many years: Bill Ayres, Bernadette Dorn, Tom Hayden, the Weather Underground etc. in the 60's, the Symbionese Liberation Army in the 70's, up till the present day, the past President of SEIU saying that "Workers of the world unite" is no longer just an empty phrase, to the despicable President of the AFL saying that you have to spill a little blood now and then, OWS protestors breaking windows and crapping on police cars, other union thugs screaming outside the homes of a banker, and the list goes on and on. The left's retort to all of these criminal acts???? "It's the fault of the Tea Party"! Bill Ayres and his wife tried to blow-up a government building with explosives, and when he was acquitted on a technicality, replied, "Guilty as hell, free as a bird. What a great country". Bill Ayres and his wife are strong Obama supporters, have hosted him in their home, and the majority of the media ignore the fact. We Conservatives have good reason for hating those who tell us it's dark outside when the sun is shining, and accuse us of extremism when most all Conservatives are exceptionally law-abiding citizens.

The NRA wants the loosest laws for gun ownership. They are supplying large contributions and strong lobbies to politicians to keep these laws. Yet it is to the politicians disadvantage that the people are well armed and pose a physical threat to the politicians. Are the politicians duped by the NRA? Is the NRA promoting armed strength in the people to keep pressure on the government? Is the NRA simply trying to represent manufactures of weapons and nothing more? Is there a conspiracy theory here that I'm not aware of?

I don't disagree that money makes the world go 'round, particularly for corrupt politicians, corrupt business leaders, corrupt union bosses, etc. This is additional support for my contention that it's human morality and behavior we must change, not gun -control laws.
 
OK, there is too much going on here, I can't reply to everything.
Gipper says that the radical Left was pushing for revolution. This is news to me. I haven't been following what that group is doing, so I will take your word for it.

It seems you guys are not happy with the government (me neither) and not opposed to the possibility of a revolution with bloodshed. Of course the 2nd amendment "well armed militia" seems to be meant for that purpose. If it is the case that conservatives generally feel that way, then I don't understand the dynamics involved:

The NRA wants the loosest laws for gun ownership. They are supplying large contributions and strong lobbies to politicians to keep these laws. Yet it is to the politicians disadvantage that the people are well armed and pose a physical threat to the politicians. Are the politicians duped by the NRA? Is the NRA promoting armed strength in the people to keep pressure on the government? Is the NRA simply trying to represent manufactures of weapons and nothing more? Is there a conspiracy theory here that I'm not aware of?


pols who are ok with tyrany should be worried this is the point of the 2nd (to defend the rest).

there is no conspiracy when its clearly spelled out "shall not be infringed".

as i said if America ditches the 2nd then it will have confirmed Tyler's prediction if the course of a democracy.

i know you are non violent by nature but is there nothing of so deep importence that its worth defending ? freedom to pursue the science that captivates you ? maybe just freedom in and of itself ?

Patrick Henry was serious when he made his comments on freedom in St John's church here in downtown Richmond VA. and i believe that when people come to believe their liberty is under legitimate threat they will feel the same.

there is an excellent reason tyrants disarm the population.
 
pols who are ok with tyrany should be worried this is the point of the 2nd (to defend the rest).

there is no conspiracy when its clearly spelled out "shall not be infringed".

as i said if America ditches the 2nd then it will have confirmed Tyler's prediction if the course of a democracy.

i know you are non violent by nature but is there nothing of so deep importence that its worth defending ? freedom to pursue the science that captivates you ? maybe just freedom in and of itself ?

Patrick Henry was serious when he made his comments on freedom in St John's church here in downtown Richmond VA. and i believe that when people come to believe their liberty is under legitimate threat they will feel the same.

there is an excellent reason tyrants disarm the population.
Best of the day..we should have a button for that...
 
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Now where did that come from?


Oh. . .I thought you guys were concerned about "government infringement on people's rights," and about "Obama creating a Police state."
And yet, now several of you seem to be buying the NRA theory to "armed cops in schools."

Is it that hard to understand?
 
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